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Citizens Assembly Workshop - Shared screen with speaker view
Jamie Lowe
10:41
hello :)
Claire Stephen
10:58
Hi everyone
Rising Up
10:59
hi!
Juliana Westcott
11:09
Hi!
Claire Stephen
11:31
Hi Juliana
Rising Up
12:24
where is everyone from?
Kathie Conn
12:32
Hi everyone. Not quite sure how this all works!…
Claire Stephen
12:36
Milton Keynes
Elena Trivelli
12:40
London
Helen Sheldrake
12:53
Hi
Nick Hoggard
13:00
Hi
Keith Garrett
13:15
Hello
Eric
13:53
Hi everybody, from Edinburgh (French)
Juliana Westcott
17:24
London :)
Eric
17:27
Hey, it's my first time on zoom. Do we need to turn the video and mic on?
Rising Up
17:55
Nope, don’t need to. We will be introducing ourselves slightly later
Eric
18:08
Cool, cheers
pat
19:42
Hi, Pat from France; hope I can follow the meeting with my english
manda brookman
19:53
no audio yet but working on it.
Martin Jones
20:03
with you shortly
Paul Thistlethwaite
20:57
image is flashing, is that just me?
Eric
21:05
Hi Pat, let me know if translation is needed. Not that I'm 100% fluent but OK.
Marco
21:15
i am having issues too
Paul Thistlethwaite
31:09
Good intro session, nice idea to meet in smaller groups at the start
Isabel Draken
32:01
what's the point in breakout groups? Ours didn't work as most people didn't have audio
Paul Thistlethwaite
32:26
you have to unmute to speak :)
Chris
32:54
and check your mic is selected to the correct input
Justine Railton
33:19
was great to meet in small groups- especially as I can’t get to meetings etc
Isabel Draken
33:26
we knew that, but not everyone is familiar with Zoom.
anamizm
35:15
i'm off...i can't work it out. alas.
Jenny Edwards
35:59
anamizm icons at top right of page
Rising Up
36:05
Break out groups are used so everyone can get to know each other a bit more. Apologies if the room didn’t work for you
Rising Up
39:10
Video that Keith mentioned from Ireland- See this short film about how citizens in Ireland resolved political deadlock over abortion rights; the same assembly which recommended a bold programme of measures to tackle the climate emergency:https://www.thejournal.ie/citizens-assembly-climate-change…/
Jessica townsend
39:32
great thanks
Michaela Smith
39:37
Great, thanks x
Rising Up
39:41
Apologies wrong link- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjpuDk9_BWI
Karen Matthews
41:03
no icons at top right, no idea what animizm icon is. can't hear anything. no idea how to get this to work. I've cancelled other things to be at home to find out more. unfortunately very disappointing. 😏
Isabel Draken
42:37
If you're on mobile, the icons might be at the bottom, trying tapping on screen. Select Device Audio
Chris
42:38
my icons bottom left, move mouse over screen, click the down arrow next to mic symbol and check your input
MANDA BROOKMAN
42:46
animizm is a person, Karen. Can you see any icons anywhere on your page?
Rising Up
42:47
can this slide show be shared? be great to refer to!
Lien Hanh
43:04
It works now for me. Just open audio management and unmute my mic
Rising Up
43:18
Yes we can share presentation and recording afterwards :)
Lien Hanh
43:25
for me, the icon at the bottom right
Rising Up
43:34
Sorry to hear you are having tech issues Karen!
Karen Matthews
45:19
icons at bottom won't do anything. been trying for almost half an hour, time to give up I think. have fun.
Lauren Stabler
45:35
I'm eager to hear more about the planned transport sortition in Cambridge -- Lauren Stabler
MANDA BROOKMAN
45:47
Can you say what the eviedence is for 45 being representatve, Keith? cheers!
Lauren Stabler
47:05
Representative not just of local residents... but in the "Travel to Work' area... or beyond.
Nick Hoggard
48:09
Can anyone join in to a CA?
MANDA BROOKMAN
48:30
youre seclected at random, Nick.
Paul Thistlethwaite
48:54
Great presentation
MANDA BROOKMAN
49:14
Keith: how does the selection work to ensure that very different areas (eg very poor, very welathy) are equally represented?
Etienne Stott
49:19
AMAZING! Thank you :-)
Eric
49:51
Thanks Kieth, could you give your email address again, I didn't have the time to write it down (?)
Lauren Stabler
50:05
Is it possible to change in Carl Lam's group?
Jakki Phillips
50:48
Sorry I have to leave now. Thank you was really interesting
Eric
52:44
I'm still on the main conversation, not in a group :/
Eric
54:13
Not sure if you can hear me, weird
Eric
56:58
That's a shame. I'm on Linux, might be the cause. Sorry. I just had 2 questions about (i) how to make sure we're fully representative of the people when selecting for sortition and (ii) how to make sure it's working, as an example, petrol lobbies might divert the decisions that need to be taken on climate change..
Eric
57:21
Just in case it can be answered now.
MANDA BROOKMAN
57:36
we have some!
Keith Garrett
57:40
I'm on Linux too. Drop me an email keith@sortitionfoundation.org
Jenny Edwards
57:48
would XR citizens assemblies be debuting how to get to zero emissions
Christian Keegan
58:02
I can feedback from the breakout group that I was in.
Cam Smith
58:17
hey Paul
Chris
58:43
Useful chat. Several questions, primarily with regard to getting balanced representation from experts and the public in assemblies?
Rising Up
58:58
Hi guys please drop your questions in here!
Justine Railton
59:07
from our group- who would decide what issues to take to a CA?
Iain G
59:15
I'd like to know what is the precise relationship between the citizens assmebly and UK Gov? Will the citizens assembly have power, or are they essentially an advisory group (which the government could theoretically ignore)?
Paula Richter
59:24
If you do statistical analysis in psychology 45 is a good, statistical sampla
Iain G
59:27
*or nieither
MANDA BROOKMAN
59:31
ok and like Chris, how do you ensure you have all communities (eg rich and poor etc etc) equally/fairly represented?
Jessica townsend
59:37
So from what he is saying it seems like the selection process could be gerrymandered
Catherine Baker
59:39
Who decides what evidence is provided, and who proposes the question/s for deliberation?
Jenna Lane
59:50
Nice to take part i have to go now. Good luck and catch you soon
Jenny Edwards
59:57
our question similar to Justine’s - would be just be deciding how to get to zero emissiins
Jenny Edwards
01:00:02
emissions
Juliana Westcott
01:00:11
Do you do a real proportional of society or is the proportion distorted so that minorities are more represented?
Catherine Baker
01:00:31
What is its legal status? The status of the recommendations?
Iain G
01:00:33
Assuming citizens assmebly is established, how long will they be in place for, and what mechanism will exist to ensure government follows through on their actions?
Liz Darcy Jones
01:00:43
Representative of group might be possible but we were concerned/wondering how you cover different geographical needs e.g. mountain isolated v. city?
Elena Trivelli
01:00:46
who decides on which issues ‘deserve’ a sortition group?
Eric
01:01:04
Thanks
David SmartKnight
01:01:18
How to ensure the “other than human” is represented?
Jessica townsend
01:01:31
good question
Paula Richter
01:01:34
great question Davis
Elena Trivelli
01:01:34
that’s a great question David!!!
gayano shaw
01:01:41
Yes! Good question…
David SmartKnight
01:01:51
(Kates question - I just wrote it!!)
Yasin Hussain
01:01:52
is it mandaotryhow do they deal with no showshow do they deal complex that maybe everyday people dont understanddoes descsion need to be unamioushow do we manke sure that centrailsed power controlling proccesss doesnt become corropthow do we select expertshow do we deal imminate issues that dont have the time for sortisitioncan CA worked in tandem on same issue
Justine Railton
01:01:52
yes- love that q David
Caroline Vincent
01:01:52
Who is doing the selection and the interview?
Christian Keegan
01:01:54
Would / could sortition be used to selected the 'experts' to guard against vested interests?
Céline Keller
01:01:57
what is meant by the "outside body" that selects the experts? And how would it be insured that the selected experts are balanced and really represent all sides of the problem. not only for example capitalist interests regarding the problem etc
Jeremy Brown
01:02:14
Are there examples of where children have been included? (important for decisions about the future)
Michaela Smith
01:02:19
Are there any obstacles to participating, such as a criminal record disbars you from jury service? Who would decide on eligibility criteria?
Juliana Westcott
01:02:36
Good questions regarding children Jeremy
Justine Railton
01:02:40
can it be done remotely for housebound people to participate?
Arne Springorum
01:03:00
how do you select the experts and ensure that their expertise is balanced?
Nuala Gathercole Lam
01:03:06
Question that came out of my group: 1. Is climate change, as opposed to abortion, too complex and broad for decisions to be made in this way? 2. How do you mitigate for the effect of media and lobbyists which affect people’s decision making in our current system?
Ann Jordan
01:03:08
so do you definitely not use random selection?
Isabel Draken
01:03:46
Can you define the XR Citizens Assembly and how it's being driven?
Lauren Stabler
01:03:55
For sortition, the selection of 'stakeholder groups' can easily be contested and made political. How can we allow members of the public to feed into the selection of stakeholder groups (i.e., sortition categories) without allowing to become political?
Simeon Gallu
01:03:57
Given the urgency of these crises. esp. climate change, wouldn't this take a bit long?
Paul Thistlethwaite
01:04:24
The fact that it is totally transparrent helps hugely with guarding againt vested interests
Simeon Gallu
01:05:02
Have assemblies that have taken place so far worked on deadline?
Claire Stephen
01:05:59
The money needed to fund a sortition group - what is it used for exactly? Presumambly everyone is there voluntarily and not being paid, so is it spent on venue, admin? Or are people paid to be there?
David SmartKnight
01:06:10
Is there any place for a group of “tribal elders” who overview the entire thing - maybe the deliberation facilitators - to ensure fair play on all parts?
Cam Smith
01:07:38
a concern I’ve come across is how to ensure facilitators are truly independent - and seen to be so by the wider public.
Paul Thistlethwaite
01:07:39
Yes all CA process is overseen by trained facilitators
Justine Railton
01:08:03
sorry question was not xr ca but general use
amy caitlin
01:09:02
Is there a way we could recreate the model within our smaller groups in XR, so we are practicing what we are preaching?
david stein
01:09:09
I had a problem getting logged in until after half way through. Will there be a recording of this that I can replay?
Fox
01:09:24
Yes there will be a recording
MANDA BROOKMAN
01:09:32
Yes I think its being recorded, David!
Tom
01:09:48
Sorry peeps had a non climate emergency to attend to
Paul Thistlethwaite
01:09:53
Cam facilitators for me would be those who are more able to host independently without imparting a personal bias. Not an easy thing to learn but many are more able than others. Transparrency again helps keeps tabs on this
Iain G
01:10:18
Thank you
MANDA BROOKMAN
01:10:21
We're already working on encouraging (vigorously) ur local council to create a CA in Cornwall.
Jack Harvie-Clark
01:10:33
if the outcome of the citizens assembly does not concur with the ideals of xr, will xr still campaign for the outcome?
Costa Asprou
01:11:24
if we say ok, now let’s bring in the climate scientists to present their evidence on climate change, and options to get to zero greenhouse gases. How do we pick from amongst climate scientists to present to the citizens assembly?
Eric
01:12:20
Having an issue with my computer, I can't hear a thing. Kieth, I'll email you. Thank you very much for this call and your answers, it's really interesting and useful. See you all, bye!
Chris
01:12:33
In essence, ideally, we would set up our own CA's to pressure local authorities with local, national and international issues and use NVDA to ensure our aims are implemented?
Paul Thistlethwaite
01:12:44
There was a question about how we can run smaller versions of CAs ourselves and practice what we preach. There are offerings of such self run events, Talk Shop is one and Thinking Box another. I look after the latter and work with TS closely. Be happy to support anyone wanting to run an event
Anna Marie Byrne
01:12:53
Won't a representative cross section of UK societty want to continue driving cars?
Paul Thistlethwaite
01:12:59
email me on paul@thinkingbox.info
MANDA BROOKMAN
01:13:32
Thats interesting, Paul, thanks. :)
Justine Railton
01:15:33
Anne Marie- if they are charged with sorting zero carbon then they won’t be able to choose that option or will have to work out how to make zero carbon vehicles work
Kate Moore
01:15:35
we dont think you're terrible at this Keith - we think you are doing great!
Claire Stephen
01:15:51
I'll secnod that : )
Justine Railton
01:15:52
second that Kate!
Justine Railton
01:15:57
😂
Justine Railton
01:17:12
age for sortition?
David SmartKnight
01:17:59
Doesn’t the criminal record depend on the crime -you wouldn’t want convicted bent politicians and fraudsters for example…
MANDA BROOKMAN
01:18:34
I was thnking the same, David.
Cam Smith
01:19:01
+1
laurie moulton-ulrich
01:20:05
please say what contact email is for XR-citizensassembly workinggroup is.
Claire Stephen
01:20:25
yes please could I also have that email
Jessica townsend
01:20:32
Citizens assemblies are expensive and time consuming we won’t be doing it casually
Rising Up
01:20:47
xr-CitizensAssembly@gmail.com
MANDA BROOKMAN
01:20:48
But there could be lost of things appropriate at local level that could be decided by a local CA.
David SmartKnight
01:21:19
isnt the point that normal political means don’t work
Cam Smith
01:21:21
I agree Manda
Paul Thistlethwaite
01:21:27
One small counter to that though is that for people to back CAs it might be good for people to have an experience of a meeting being run in a CA type way
David SmartKnight
01:21:56
Sortition website and participedia
Chris
01:22:07
Splendid, that's the answer I wanted. Cheers. How do we ensure the XR CA is able to force national gov to implement or do we just change the parliamentary system??!! (please say yes)
Michaela Smith
01:22:09
I don’t agree with a single, National Assembly telling central government as that would continue a system of top down, whereby Councils would do the minimum to comply, rather than the maimum
Michaela Smith
01:22:24
*maximum
Jeremy Brown
01:23:03
I've just checked - looks like the email address is protonmail.com (not gmail). So it's ' xr-CitizensAssembly@protonmail.com '
Paul Thistlethwaite
01:23:07
Local CAs on local issues (not national) coul dbe a great way to support local decision making
Cam Smith
01:24:21
yes, decentralised assemblies, kinda federalist....
Caroline Vincent
01:24:39
Have to go. Thanks a lot guys. Very helpful#
Kate Moore
01:24:40
and a duty, as Yanis Varofakis talks of, in DiEM 25
Michaela Smith
01:24:44
I’m inclined to promote the idea that change begins at home. So if Council after Council more or less overrides central government in doing what must be done (e.g. banning fracking), we’re a lot closer to a real notion of democracy alrteady
Justine Railton
01:24:49
devolved ca’s
Justine Railton
01:25:43
Scotland and Wales an nI might baulk at centralised
Rising Up
01:26:10
any final questions or messages of support for Keith? ^__^
MANDA BROOKMAN
01:26:11
Zackly
Etienne Stott
01:26:21
Keith = boss
Chris
01:26:26
i think XR are right to aim high first, and then implement CA's at local level. We are time restricted. It is important to build political direction from the grass roots but we need national and international change on these issues
Michaela Smith
01:26:29
Thank you very much for your time and enthusiasm xx
Robert Possnett
01:26:40
thanks Kieth. great workshop
Elena Trivelli
01:26:40
Thanks Keith, will definitely look into this more!
Paul Thistlethwaite
01:26:48
Great workshop, big thanks to XR and Keith
MANDA BROOKMAN
01:26:55
A lot of us are qustioing the one central CA model. Can Keith respond to why there would be no valu ein a local function?? :)
Justine Railton
01:27:03
how do housebound people take part?
Anna Marie Byrne
01:27:06
If it needs funding to happen then how can local or central CAs happen without the say so of governments?
MANDA BROOKMAN
01:27:08
*value in*
Jenny Edwards
01:27:23
thanks everyone very worthwhile
Chris
01:27:26
Thanks though, interesting chat, worthwhile and inspirational
Brian Candeland
01:27:33
Thanks for arranging this - interesting and hopefuly useful
Paula Richter
01:27:33
Thanks! I think it is important to v
Paul Thistlethwaite
01:27:35
Perhaps we should have an online mini assembly on here?
Jeremy Brown
01:27:41
Great question Justine about 'how do housebound people get involved'?
Paul Thistlethwaite
01:27:44
I'd be happy to help
Jenny Edwards
01:27:46
that’s helpful - a or b -
Michaela Smith
01:28:07
I’d love a mini-assembly!
Paula Richter
01:28:33
Thanks! I think it is important to compare with what we have now. Maybe this is not ideal, but what we have now is worse. We cannot compare with the best ever thing that doesn’t exist yet
Kathie Conn
01:28:41
Brilliant1 Thank you everyone. Don’t underestimate people’s ability to understand complex issues if time is taken to explain and they feel valued.
Paul Thistlethwaite
01:29:11
What about local CAs on local issues? Eg pot holes? or local bypass?
Kate Moore
01:30:31
nothing will be here if we dont stop climate disaster
David SmartKnight
01:30:47
I THINK IN CORNWALL WE ARE THINKING the local citizens assembly is not about XR BUT ABOUT THE LOCAL COUNCIL DECLARATION OF EMERGENCY and supporting them in meeting it
MANDA BROOKMAN
01:31:31
Really interesting, thanks, Keith - and Robin. I think I might completely disagree about the local CA but keen to know more! :)
David SmartKnight
01:31:57
Brilliant!!
pat
01:32:05
hanks for all
Kate Moore
01:32:07
Ta dude
Marco Bertaglia
01:32:09
👏👏👏
Cam Smith
01:32:13
thanks all.
Rachael Castell
01:32:13
Incredibly informative. And so much food for thought
Justine Railton
01:32:14
thanks! brilliant meeting
Claire Stephen
01:32:18
Thanks to you too Jamie
Costa Asprou
01:32:21
agree, thanks very much!
Iain G
01:32:24
Thank you!
Catherine Baker
01:32:28
Thank you so much!
Andéol Lê Quan Phong
01:32:39
thank you so much :)
Iain G
01:32:45
woop woop!
Kathie Conn
01:32:48
Wonderful
Stu Riggs
01:32:56
Great work thank you so much
Ann Jordan
01:32:58
yes great to learn more about citizens assemblies
Liz Darcy Jones
01:32:58
Thank you so much Keith. Totally get we need to demonstrate an exemplary CA across the country, rather than local - structure and facilitation critical.
Paul Thistlethwaite
01:33:08
Well done Robin
Chris
01:33:10
thanks]
Magdalena Zajicova
01:33:23
Thank you