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Equity in Medicine Live Chat on Gender Pay Gap July 8 with Dr. Barron - Shared screen with speaker view
Carla Holinaty
17:57
Welcome, Mary!
Equity In Medicine
18:42
Hello everyone, welcome! please note that this session will be recorded.
Equity In Medicine
19:29
We also encourage you to use the "Speaker View" on the right top page
Janet McMullen
21:09
The question just disappeared...
Kim Kelly
23:59
Not yet
Nili Kaplan-Myrth
36:16
do we know how many of us are stuck in FFS?
Shannon Ruzycki
36:39
FFS compensation varies per province - about 70%
Connie Nasello
36:41
I think it is around 45%
Janet De Groot
38:01
Transparency of earnings was promoted by a female psychiatrist in Toronto at UHN about 30 years ago - really helped with income equity
Amber Burridge
38:38
ummmm paediatrics is highly female dominated and is pretty high up on that ratio...
Dr. Jennifer Ingram
38:59
Are these slides going to be available after the zoom meeting ends? by email?
Kim Kelly
39:58
Yes, the slides will be available. You can subscribe to equityinmed@gmail.com or at through the feedback that will be emailed out after the discussion.
Leslea Walters
45:31
OBGyn here. These numbers are infuriating and I have looked at them and stopped because it just hurts too much
Dennis Kendel
46:34
The numbers are infuriating! We need to change this
Nadia Alam
46:53
Agree Dr. Kendel.
Connie Nasello
47:22
Thanks for being an ally, Dennis.
Jane Healey
47:56
In my world or mostly hospital-based pediatrics, the biggest issue is all the non-paid work. The men pick up more and more shifts/call. The women sit on committees
Elaine W
47:57
but I hear OBs complication rate higher because they get referred complicated cases by midwives: making midwives look good.
Nadia Alam
48:01
Dr. Walters, this is the hidden bias right — female oriented surgeries are valued less despite the complexity, despite the patient impact.
Nili Kaplan-Myrth
48:03
family docs in FHOs earn 30% more than FFS. To compensate, I work 60+ hours/week
Nili Kaplan-Myrth
49:03
it isn’t just how much we earn - it is how many hours we work.
Carol Ott
49:12
Okay - ordered the book!
Connie Nasello
49:20
Absolutely, Dr. Alam, Dr. Walters. The MW issue crosses genders, but more complaints about women OB-GYNs on SoMe.
Leslea Walters
49:43
There are so many examples in OBGyn
Mary Kinloch
50:26
ooof. That statement resonates.
Connie Nasello
50:29
Agree!
Connie Nasello
50:48
How many of us are OB-GYNS. ! am
Leslea Walters
50:53
Also, women sit on committees that look at practice standards… men sit on finance committees and OR committees (holding the keys to OR time)
Henrike Rees
51:48
Love the poem. So true!
Connie Nasello
52:13
Goodness - please speak closer to your mic.
Janet De Groot
52:14
Thanks for the poem!
Nadia Alam
52:22
Love this poem! So powerful!
Connie Nasello
52:48
It reflects my experience!!
Kim Kelly
52:53
How do you respond to people who think the GPG mostly results from women’s choices? Q1
Connie Nasello
53:49
My choice was to work rural 100+h per week for most of my career! Not due to not pulling my weight.
Dennis Kendel
54:22
I’ve known Dr. Baron for a while & I learn new things every time I listen to her - she is so impressive
Rachel Carson
54:34
at my health authority, of the female physician leaders profiled for an intl women’s day newsletter, only 1 (me) mentioned the pay gap
Connie Nasello
54:36
I did more complex surgeries, more pelvic pain more undifferentiated pelvic pain below the xiphoid!
Jane Healey
54:38
Men need to first acknowledge that this actually exists. And it is not simply a matter of men being more "efficient".
Zainab Abdurrahman
55:08
well said Jane, completely agree
Janet McMullen
55:19
100% Jane
elissa cohen
55:21
Yes! Sponsorship is key!
Samantha Hill
55:21
great answer.
Shelley Ross
55:24
There is a term for supportive men known as men of good conscience
Nili Kaplan-Myrth
55:44
there is sufficient data - we are up against this until women are in more leadership positions
Rachel Carson
55:50
as a nephrologist with an focus in (time consuming in fee for service environment) palliative care, I make 50% less than my collegues
Connie Nasello
55:55
#MeToo has exposed the inequities, and SoMe has removed the isolation that we have experienced. We still have more "imposter syndrome", so we dont step up.
Connie Nasello
56:22
Or even if we do step up, still have imposter syndrome.
Connie Nasello
56:53
Women experience more "shame and blame" for errors.
Janet McMullen
56:54
If women spend more time with their patients than men, and if we want to reduce the gender pay gap, does this not mean we have to reduce the patient load for women compared with men if they are to work the same hours? I’m sure this will make women look “weaker” and “less efficient”
Nili Kaplan-Myrth
56:58
yes!!!!
Dennis Kendel
57:04
As a male physician, I am dismayed that any male colleague still claims that the gender pay is not real
Nadia Alam
57:10
Interestingly, gender disparity exists even among capitated physicians
Jane Healey
57:16
Anyone find that when there are women in leadership positions, they are not always actually supportive of other women? More women in leadership is only part of the solution.
elissa cohen
57:35
Defying the gender norms and threatening the patriarchal status quo can have social and professional consequences
Nili Kaplan-Myrth
57:57
women don’t support women just because they are women
Dennis Kendel
58:26
I like the idea of getting a majority of women on PTMA negotiating teams !
Amber Burridge
58:53
Literally colleagues say that the work I do is NOT WORK and that salaried work results in less “output”. How do you fight that?? PLEASE BUMP THIS!!!
Balsam Arwini
59:01
I think a huge component of women not supporting other women is having to have dealt with misogyny and now it’s internalized misogyny for those women... it’s very unfortunate and destructive. :/
Nadia Alam
59:24
It’s because they measure output with utilization metrics Dr. Burridge.
Jane Healey
59:35
@Balsam, agree. And I think they have to "fit in" with the otherwise male-dominated leadership group.
Nadia Alam
59:45
Productivity is defined by bean-counting, # of patients seen, # of operations etc.
Nadia Alam
59:58
And that devalues all the other aspects of productivity.
Nadia Alam
01:00:15
Especially relevance, appropriateness, effectiveness.
Nili Kaplan-Myrth
01:00:21
I tried to organize colloquia as a resident for our local FMWC and female surgeons told me “there are no issues for women.” That shuts down the conversation.
Gregory Rose
01:00:24
Nadia - too true. We are not workers in a widget factory. Our widgets need time and human interaction
Dennis Kendel
01:00:36
In In Saskatchewan we are blessed with many amazing women leaders in medicine and we need more !
Shannon Ruzycki
01:01:14
and this hasn’t been addressed in CBD
Fiona Warde
01:01:53
Acknowledgement is key I agree, however follow-up with actions need to happen too. When female students/residents report issues and concerns with superiors, there needs to be a defined way it is dealt with.
Steve
01:02:12
Very, very informative, thanks! I am retired, but chairing Alberta income equity initiative. Agree with most of what I heard tonight. Daughter has two fellowships (paeds, ER) and nice to see she is doing relatively well. Having said that, AB is a mess right now, with right wing idealogues destroying health care here. Regardless of pay method. Our FFS was improved a lot by time modifiers for longer visits, now trashed. I am recharged by your enthusiasm, thanks!
Nadia Alam
01:02:43
Yes, latest move by AB govt is dangerous. Threatens physician autonomy in significant ways.
Nadia Alam
01:02:52
well said Dr. Barron!!
Shana Johnston
01:02:55
Lesley, you rock!!!
Zainab Abdurrahman
01:03:00
Well said Dr. Barron!!
Candace Bradshaw
01:03:00
“Unless we get rid of fee for service the gender pay gap will persist”. Dr Barron if you have data to back that statement up I would like to get my hands on it
Amber Burridge
01:04:40
my colleague was told that ‘bullet points” were too aggressive by our hospital admin
Dennis Kendel
01:05:43
My experience as a mentor and/or ally for female colleagues in pursuit of leadership roles I’ve learned so much about the barriers women face
Diana Fort
01:07:15
it’s a problem with what is valued by the system: procedures pay. that’s one reason Peds, Family practice, geriatrics etc… pay less.
Bolu Ogunyemi
01:07:17
“Whole system is aligned” = SYSTEMATIC sexism in medicine. Louder for those in the back pelase
Steve
01:07:22
Totally agree, blended cap with base for your panel and incentive for extra, overtime etc is the way to go.
Megan MacGillivray
01:08:00
I just finished my specialty residency training. We have multiple female staff attending on salary. They see far fewer patients that their male counterparts in fee-for-service positions in the community. However, having worked with both groups, I am confident they are able to completely manage and discharge many of their patients in one appointment. The patients leave satisfied and informed. I don’t see that happening at the same rate in fee-for-service models
Kaylynn Purdy
01:08:15
Dr. Barron, why do you think there is more of a leadership gap as seniority increases? It seems at the resident level, more women are involved…but also leadership in residency is not highly valued by most departments.
Elaine W
01:08:20
So you think Ontario Midwives lawsuit victory on gender discrimination was a correct decision? That was a very disappointing decision for OBGYN and FP/OBs
Dennis Kendel
01:08:26
Dr. Barron is demonstrating an amazing capacity to “speak truth to power” - this is leadership in action !
Amber Burridge
01:08:42
You are awesome Dr. Barron!
Nili Kaplan-Myrth
01:08:45
I say on the OMA women’s committee. Same as other women’s committees I’ve sat on - preaching to the converted. We need women on ALL committees
Connie Nasello
01:09:03
But during Covid mostly men were approached to be speakers, and appear to be in charge, when not really involved, and not experts.
Amber Burridge
01:09:05
@Purdy you get worn down!
Kim Kelly
01:09:13
Women on negotiation teams is a great idea!
Connie Nasello
01:09:33
Dr. Barron, I had that exact experience as a female leader.
Elaine W
01:09:37
I’m a specialist and I don’t see difference in referral compared to my male colleagues. I think your community reputation helps.
Nadia Alam
01:09:42
Interestingly, that has been my experience. Being told that my influence is threatening to the men at the leadership tables.
elissa cohen
01:09:57
They are weeded out and beyond that difficulty, to get beyond the glass ceiling, the sticky floor to name a few challenges..
Debrah Wirtzfeld
01:10:00
as you move further up it is about networks and relationships. we as women must focus on that.
Nili Kaplan-Myrth
01:10:06
men are the “experts” in CBC and the Globe and Mail and other media, too
Shana Johnston
01:10:15
That was awesome!!! Thank you!!!
Terri-Leigh Aldred
01:10:18
will slides be available or a recording?
Elaine W
01:10:18
Firstly, there are few female physicians leaders: mostly are Nursing who become hospital administrators
Terri-Leigh Aldred
01:10:28
never mind just answered my question
Equity In Medicine
01:10:31
equityinmed@gmail.com
Nili Kaplan-Myrth
01:10:36
thank you, Dr Barron!
Toby Achtman
01:10:40
thank you. that was great info!
Gayle Burnett
01:10:41
Thank you very much - this was a great session!
Jane Healey
01:10:48
Excellent talk Dr. Barron. Thank you!
Mary Kinloch
01:10:49
jeez that hour flew by
elissa cohen
01:10:50
This was outstanding!
Henrike Rees
01:10:55
Thank you ! This was excellent!
Steve
01:10:56
Thanks very much, Drs Barron and Kelly. Informed me greatly about the issues and data.
Terri-Leigh Aldred
01:10:57
Thank-you!
Kristina Joyal
01:10:57
Thank you Dr. Barron, that was great!
Zainab Abdurrahman
01:10:58
Thank you so much!!
Nadia Alam
01:10:59
This is great! Thank you Dr. Kelly and Equity in Med and Dr. Barron!
Samantha Hill
01:10:59
thank you!!!
T
01:10:59
Thank you!
Sally Law
01:11:01
thank you. great talk!
Janet McMullen
01:11:02
So interesting, thank you!
Dennis Kendel
01:11:02
Thank you Dr. Barron - you are an amazing colleague - keep speaking truth to power !
Paula Kennedy
01:11:02
amazing talk
Zainab Abdurrahman
01:11:03
amazing !!
Jane Healey
01:11:03
And thank you to our male colleagues.
Jane Healey
01:11:08
For joining.
Chelsea Schemenauer
01:11:09
thank you!
Evert Tuyp
01:11:14
Thanks
Bolu Ogunyemi
01:11:26
Great job, Dr Barron!!
Leslea Walters
01:11:31
Thanks everyone
Amber Burridge
01:11:42
Thank you !!!!!!!
Jacqueline Carverhill
01:11:52
this was excellent!
Hannah Welsh
01:12:10
Let's get to it! Thank you