Equity in Medicine Live Chat on Gender Pay Gap July 8 with Dr. Barron - Shared screen with speaker view
Equity In Medicine
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Equity In Medicine
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The question just disappeared...
do we know how many of us are stuck in FFS?
FFS compensation varies per province - about 70%
I think it is around 45%
Janet De Groot
Transparency of earnings was promoted by a female psychiatrist in Toronto at UHN about 30 years ago - really helped with income equity
ummmm paediatrics is highly female dominated and is pretty high up on that ratio...
Dr. Jennifer Ingram
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OBGyn here. These numbers are infuriating and I have looked at them and stopped because it just hurts too much
The numbers are infuriating! We need to change this
Agree Dr. Kendel.
Thanks for being an ally, Dennis.
In my world or mostly hospital-based pediatrics, the biggest issue is all the non-paid work. The men pick up more and more shifts/call. The women sit on committees
but I hear OBs complication rate higher because they get referred complicated cases by midwives: making midwives look good.
Dr. Walters, this is the hidden bias right — female oriented surgeries are valued less despite the complexity, despite the patient impact.
family docs in FHOs earn 30% more than FFS. To compensate, I work 60+ hours/week
it isn’t just how much we earn - it is how many hours we work.
Okay - ordered the book!
Absolutely, Dr. Alam, Dr. Walters. The MW issue crosses genders, but more complaints about women OB-GYNs on SoMe.
There are so many examples in OBGyn
ooof. That statement resonates.
How many of us are OB-GYNS. ! am
Also, women sit on committees that look at practice standards… men sit on finance committees and OR committees (holding the keys to OR time)
Love the poem. So true!
Goodness - please speak closer to your mic.
Janet De Groot
Thanks for the poem!
Love this poem! So powerful!
It reflects my experience!!
How do you respond to people who think the GPG mostly results from women’s choices? Q1
My choice was to work rural 100+h per week for most of my career! Not due to not pulling my weight.
I’ve known Dr. Baron for a while & I learn new things every time I listen to her - she is so impressive
at my health authority, of the female physician leaders profiled for an intl women’s day newsletter, only 1 (me) mentioned the pay gap
I did more complex surgeries, more pelvic pain more undifferentiated pelvic pain below the xiphoid!
Men need to first acknowledge that this actually exists. And it is not simply a matter of men being more "efficient".
well said Jane, completely agree
Yes! Sponsorship is key!
There is a term for supportive men known as men of good conscience
there is sufficient data - we are up against this until women are in more leadership positions
as a nephrologist with an focus in (time consuming in fee for service environment) palliative care, I make 50% less than my collegues
#MeToo has exposed the inequities, and SoMe has removed the isolation that we have experienced. We still have more "imposter syndrome", so we dont step up.
Or even if we do step up, still have imposter syndrome.
Women experience more "shame and blame" for errors.
If women spend more time with their patients than men, and if we want to reduce the gender pay gap, does this not mean we have to reduce the patient load for women compared with men if they are to work the same hours? I’m sure this will make women look “weaker” and “less efficient”
As a male physician, I am dismayed that any male colleague still claims that the gender pay is not real
Interestingly, gender disparity exists even among capitated physicians
Anyone find that when there are women in leadership positions, they are not always actually supportive of other women? More women in leadership is only part of the solution.
Defying the gender norms and threatening the patriarchal status quo can have social and professional consequences
women don’t support women just because they are women
I like the idea of getting a majority of women on PTMA negotiating teams !
Literally colleagues say that the work I do is NOT WORK and that salaried work results in less “output”. How do you fight that?? PLEASE BUMP THIS!!!
I think a huge component of women not supporting other women is having to have dealt with misogyny and now it’s internalized misogyny for those women... it’s very unfortunate and destructive. :/
It’s because they measure output with utilization metrics Dr. Burridge.
@Balsam, agree. And I think they have to "fit in" with the otherwise male-dominated leadership group.
Productivity is defined by bean-counting, # of patients seen, # of operations etc.
And that devalues all the other aspects of productivity.
Especially relevance, appropriateness, effectiveness.
I tried to organize colloquia as a resident for our local FMWC and female surgeons told me “there are no issues for women.” That shuts down the conversation.
Nadia - too true. We are not workers in a widget factory. Our widgets need time and human interaction
In In Saskatchewan we are blessed with many amazing women leaders in medicine and we need more !
and this hasn’t been addressed in CBD
Acknowledgement is key I agree, however follow-up with actions need to happen too. When female students/residents report issues and concerns with superiors, there needs to be a defined way it is dealt with.
Very, very informative, thanks! I am retired, but chairing Alberta income equity initiative. Agree with most of what I heard tonight. Daughter has two fellowships (paeds, ER) and nice to see she is doing relatively well. Having said that, AB is a mess right now, with right wing idealogues destroying health care here. Regardless of pay method. Our FFS was improved a lot by time modifiers for longer visits, now trashed. I am recharged by your enthusiasm, thanks!
Yes, latest move by AB govt is dangerous. Threatens physician autonomy in significant ways.
well said Dr. Barron!!
Lesley, you rock!!!
Well said Dr. Barron!!
“Unless we get rid of fee for service the gender pay gap will persist”. Dr Barron if you have data to back that statement up I would like to get my hands on it
my colleague was told that ‘bullet points” were too aggressive by our hospital admin
My experience as a mentor and/or ally for female colleagues in pursuit of leadership roles I’ve learned so much about the barriers women face
it’s a problem with what is valued by the system: procedures pay. that’s one reason Peds, Family practice, geriatrics etc… pay less.
“Whole system is aligned” = SYSTEMATIC sexism in medicine. Louder for those in the back pelase
Totally agree, blended cap with base for your panel and incentive for extra, overtime etc is the way to go.
I just finished my specialty residency training. We have multiple female staff attending on salary. They see far fewer patients that their male counterparts in fee-for-service positions in the community. However, having worked with both groups, I am confident they are able to completely manage and discharge many of their patients in one appointment. The patients leave satisfied and informed. I don’t see that happening at the same rate in fee-for-service models
Dr. Barron, why do you think there is more of a leadership gap as seniority increases? It seems at the resident level, more women are involved…but also leadership in residency is not highly valued by most departments.
So you think Ontario Midwives lawsuit victory on gender discrimination was a correct decision? That was a very disappointing decision for OBGYN and FP/OBs
Dr. Barron is demonstrating an amazing capacity to “speak truth to power” - this is leadership in action !
You are awesome Dr. Barron!
I say on the OMA women’s committee. Same as other women’s committees I’ve sat on - preaching to the converted. We need women on ALL committees
But during Covid mostly men were approached to be speakers, and appear to be in charge, when not really involved, and not experts.
@Purdy you get worn down!
Women on negotiation teams is a great idea!
Dr. Barron, I had that exact experience as a female leader.
I’m a specialist and I don’t see difference in referral compared to my male colleagues. I think your community reputation helps.
Interestingly, that has been my experience. Being told that my influence is threatening to the men at the leadership tables.
They are weeded out and beyond that difficulty, to get beyond the glass ceiling, the sticky floor to name a few challenges..
as you move further up it is about networks and relationships. we as women must focus on that.
men are the “experts” in CBC and the Globe and Mail and other media, too
That was awesome!!! Thank you!!!
will slides be available or a recording?
Firstly, there are few female physicians leaders: mostly are Nursing who become hospital administrators
never mind just answered my question
Equity In Medicine
thank you, Dr Barron!
thank you. that was great info!
Thank you very much - this was a great session!
Excellent talk Dr. Barron. Thank you!
jeez that hour flew by
This was outstanding!
Thank you ! This was excellent!
Thanks very much, Drs Barron and Kelly. Informed me greatly about the issues and data.
Thank you Dr. Barron, that was great!
Thank you so much!!
This is great! Thank you Dr. Kelly and Equity in Med and Dr. Barron!
thank you. great talk!
So interesting, thank you!
Thank you Dr. Barron - you are an amazing colleague - keep speaking truth to power !
And thank you to our male colleagues.
Great job, Dr Barron!!
Thank you !!!!!!!
this was excellent!
Let's get to it! Thank you