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Review of qualifications at level 3 and below webinar - Shared screen with speaker view
Catherine sezen
Hello everyone, great to see you! Please put any questions in the chat and we will try to get to as many of them as possible.
Catherine sezen
Any thoughts or questions so far?
Mike Saunders
What do they think is a qualification which overlaps with a T Level i.e. does that include a BTEC Science
Catherine sezen
Thanks Mike. I will ask.
Alison Gray
This sounds like 3 routes not 2 as indicated on the chart, the 3rd being specialised?
Catherine sezen
Interesting feedback Alison
Katie Jones
what will happen to applied generals, the response ignored practitioner feedback of their importance
Catherine sezen
Thanks Katie, Let's ask that question.
Mike Saunders
Lokks like the proposal is to dump them all!
John Fitzpatrick
If someone has a T qualification and becomes an apprentice might RPL or RPA be considered when agreeing the duration and TNP of the standard?
John Fitzpatrick
Previous question from John Fitzpatrick
Catherine sezen
Thanks john
Katie Jones
given the lack of preparation on t levels the removal of applied generals is likely to cause structural instability in fe colleges what work has been done on this
Karen Spencer
So assuming Health & Sciences qualifications that support progression to Nursing will be funded? Also Public Services - as the majority police recruitment now expects a degree level
James Moncrieff
A huge number of post-16 students do not yet know which progression route they want to follow, or will change their mind by the age of 18. Flexibility is key and there must be (a) a wide range of qualifications which will allow progression to any of university, apprenticeship and employment, and (b) an opportunity to mix and match qualifications of interest, such as A levels and BTECs. How is this addressed for students who want to study practical and technical subjects?
David Rigby
We have many learners who join us at 16 who need to complete level 1 and level 2 qualifications prior to progressing to level 3. Has thought been given to what the pre-level 3 landscape may look like or will level 3 be finalised before level 2 and below is looked at?
Karen Spencer
Presuming for the National Skills fund, you could trial some of the modular adult approach, by funding modules at level 3, like happens at the moment at level 1 and 2
Katie Jones
many larger colleges have over 1000 students on applied generals how would such institutions find 300-400,000 placement hours
Glyn Jones
Given the requirement for T Levels that students achieve English and Maths, the model proposed will probably mean that all those students who currently don't achieve these will be unable to gain Level 3
Mike Saunders
I am wondering if anyone at DFE has any idea how DWP will deal with an Adult undertaking a full time 2 year course? Have they arranged for a break in sanctions on benefits? If not this proposal is utterly useless and will result in no advantage to anyone
Katie Jones
aren't the reforms reintroducing the secondary modern system at age 16
Karen Spencer
Do you expect there to be a knock-on effect from Covid 19 on timescales ... in all qualification reform historically there have been extensions thinking Legacy, QCF, RQF etc.. etc...
Suzanne Gallagher
Can the slides please be shared?
Catherine sezen
Hello Suzanne, yes we will share the slides.
Katie Jones
mike not working sorry
Alison Davies
Sorry I may have missed this somewhere along the line but.... is it still the case that to achieve a T Level all elements plus maths and English have to be passed? We are extremely concerned that there are large numbers of student who could be in a position that they will be forced into a qualification they will not be able to achieve.
Katie Jones
but you have had views and ignored them
Karen Spencer
The industry placement challenge is one linked to the nature of local industry plus the fact that 95% of businesses in the UK are SMEs
Glyn Jones
It would be naïve to imagine that English and Maths issues will be resolved in the transition year. It doesn't happen now...
Alison Gray
it must be acknowledged that English and maths will be a significant barrier to achieving a T level suggesting A levels many also not be appropriate.
Karen Ferguson Askham Bryan College
Sounds like this is going to create a huge bottleneck with students who cannot progress anywhere due to English and Maths challenges
Laraine Moody
It is insane in the current climate and this day and age that we cannot get funding for virtual industrial placements when young people can obviously carry out important and valuable work remotely. If this isn't rectified no amount of marketing to employers will create sufficient IPs
Katie Jones
we are now in the middle of roll out isn't it a bit late to be taking things away for consideration
Richard Barlow
For Level 3 students who wish to study a number of subjects / keep options open, the wide range of A levels offered by a college will work well. For Level 3 students who are clear about their intended career (and there are plenty), T levels have the potential to be an excellent choice. I do agree with the points raised by others about IPs and Maths & English.
Karen Spencer
The issue is the school curriculum needs to align with the direction of travel unfortunately it hasn’t it has gone backwards in terms of approach. Also OECD research shows our current university graduates have the same skill level as those currently over 60 with similar qualifications. This is very different to other OECD countries....
David Rigby
I would like to make a point that for many FE learners, gaining a level 3 is not why their aim. For many learners gaining a level 1 is a fantastic achievement and for others they leave with a level 2 and successfully start a career. I'm a little concerned that such learners do not seem to be at the forefront of the DFE's thoughts.
Karen Spencer
I am not clear why we aren’t looking at the whole system.
Mike Saunders
Please don't forget the adults
Mike Saunders
DWP will not allow adults to study at all if the job market picks up
jacqui deane
What is different about this reform that will solve the issue of lack of quality placements and engagement and achievement of students in English and maths. If we can't get employers to offer apprenticeships and placements now what will the reform do to change this? If students are not attending English and maths now transition programmes focus on these qualifications how will the reforms prevent have more NEET young people?
Patrick Craven
Adults will need a more flexible offer and I think that is being recognised in the consultation - the key there will be how that is supported by disaggregated curriculim, funding and access eligibility. This may also bring back in NSF options short term as mentioned or a wider post 18 loan system if we look to expand learner or employer sponsored lifelong learning
Ann Marie Spry
Agree with modular approach for adults we need to make access to Level 3 learning easier if adults are to have appropriate pathways into higher level learning.
Karen Spencer
Conscious I’ve got another meeting and have to go. Happy to contribute in any discussion.
Mike Saunders
They have not dealt with the DWP funding issue at all
Joanne Baxter
can we have an answer for Laraines question please?
Ann Marie Spry
adult specific session would be welcome
Richard Barlow
Thanks everyone - I think the reforms are potentially a positive step to improving the qualification system. Nothing will be perfect or easy of course!
Mike Saunders
Definitely. Government have no real joined up thinking about how the unemployed actually retrain in the past so I would not expect them to start to do so now
Sian Owen
Thanks all - really useful info and discussion.
Catherine sezen
We are talking to DfE about virtual placements
Harriet -AoC Events Team
Thank you all
James Moncrieff
Thanks everyone. Very concerned for our future students.
Alison Davies
Thank you