Zoom Logo

How to manage centre and assessed ranking for GCSE and A Level's Webinar - Shared screen with speaker view
Harriet Hadley
04:36
Hi everyone, please select 'All panellists and attendees' this will enable all participants to see your questions and chat
Diane Thurston
05:34
Morning from the sunny North East. Di Thurston
Neil Church
06:02
Hi from sunny Ludlow! Neil Church
Carolyn Langford
06:04
Hi, its Carolyn from West Kent and Hadlow College
Yasmin Simmonds
06:05
Good morning from Plymouth, Devon
Carolyn Langford
06:59
Super weather in Oxted Surrey!
Diane Thurston
07:03
Always sunny in the North East of course! Di Thurston
Sophie Jenkins
07:04
Good morning from Hunstanton, Norfolk
Hayley Wood
07:11
Morning from Tameside College, Manchester!
Carolyn Langford
07:19
Love the zooming its great
Rebecca Green
07:25
Good morning from Abingdon and Witney College
Harriet Hadley
07:33
Hi everyone, please select 'All panellists and attendees' this will enable all participants to see your questions and chat
Andrew Burr
09:30
Hi from Myerscough College
becky jones
09:38
Good morning from Harlow College.
Carolyn Langford
09:39
Can anyone see the list of attendees?
Katy Dixon
09:44
Good morning from Bishop Auckland College
Farha Rasul
09:48
Morning from Bath College
Helen Watts
09:49
Hello from Kirklees College
Joey Denham
09:57
Greetings from MidKent College
Luke Maurin
10:05
Luke Eastleigh college
Kirsty Davey
10:08
Hello from Chesterfield College!
Trisha Franklin
10:09
Morning from Peterborough Regional College
Mikhaila Ellington
10:12
Croydon College
nicola welland
10:16
Nicola Welland Tameside College Manchester
Harriet Hadley
10:18
Only panellists can see attendees
Rachel Smith
10:19
Good morning from Mansfield
Vicky Evans
10:21
Morning from Heart of Worcestershire College
Kelly Baxter
10:26
Morning all from East Durham College
Michael Luder
10:31
Hi, how will I be able to access the recording later?
christine carter
11:05
Good morning all from Wirral Met College
Lesley Fooks
11:22
Barking & Dagenham College
Jade Gibson
11:45
Hello from Wirral Met College!
Sian Cound
11:50
Good everyone from Abingdon & Witney College
Alison Ford
12:27
And another 'B' Brockenhurst College, in the sunny New Forest!!
Harriet Hadley
13:13
Hi everyone, please select 'All panellists and attendees' this will enable all participants to see your questions and chat
Jo Williams
23:04
Access qualifications (OCNWM) seem to be acting unilaterally - is that anyone else’s experience?
Phil Jones
25:47
QAA are taking a different view than Ofqual for Access provision. Very onerous!
Rachel Almeida
28:27
Hi, A response to someone comment above has been posted here: That is our experience too. I believe it's because Access straddles FE and HE that it feels it needs to be more onerous but there is a heavy workload for our Access tutors with the prediction process.
Rachel Almeida
28:56
Do select for your comment or question to go to panellists and attendees so everyone can see your comments. Thanks!
John Chance
29:01
How will OFQAUL rank between colleges??
Elizabeth Sheppard
30:01
what happens with adult learners? Do their results go in with full time students?
nicola welland
30:42
We really need to support that adult learner grades are dealt with separately
Tamara Ashun
31:32
Today is deadline for submission of spoken language for English language GCSE, what is happening with this?
Barbara Yates
31:35
I have spoken to anumber of colleges who are concerned about the adults being grouped with 16-18
Helen Watts
32:04
S&L deadline has been extended. New provisional date of the 15th May
Bianca Fanciullacci
32:08
Spoken language has been deferred from what I understand
Ian Mathieson
32:11
100% agree Nicola. We are ok ranking 600 FT learners but struggling to integrate our 70 adults into the ranking.
Darren Hindley
32:16
15th May for S&L but has been extended (Pearson)
Margaret Dodd
32:21
Absolutely agree, adult grades and ranking needs to be separate.
Elizabeth Sheppard
32:44
if adults results are put with full time learners it affects % normally adult data doesn't count
Elizabeth Sheppard
33:15
spoken language has to be predicted along with grades
Janet Annetts
33:16
At what point does someone become an adult? Makes it difficult to define surely?
Paula Waltmaier
33:25
We have YR11, 16-18 and 19+ which need to be separate
nicola welland
33:27
are there plans to have traditional November re-sits?
Elizabeth Sheppard
33:35
I'm talking about part time adult classes
Ian Mathieson
34:00
I'm with Elizabeth!
Marta Gajewska-Kopczyk
34:36
Same here, we have Yr 11s, 16-18 year olds and adults - we need to rank them separately
Elizabeth Sheppard
35:03
it is unfair to expect colleges to put adult evening/part time classes be put in with other learners
Hilary Gardner
35:23
Definitely agree Adults should be ranked separately
Janet Annetts
36:33
Should all resits be dealt with separately from Year 11 & Year 10?
Janet Annetts
36:39
For GCSE
Ian Mathieson
36:51
I agree with Elizabeth and Hilary!
Elizabeth Sheppard
37:34
will results be done on centre number or whole college group?
Jon Crawford
38:15
Its unfair to compare FE resit learners with learners in the compulsory sector who are predicted a grade 6 and so are put into foundation tier,
John Chance
39:44
You could still end up with 70+ in a quartile!
Tony Giland
43:22
How do you decide between Grade 3 Q4 and Grade 4 Q1 for example?
Ben Robinson
43:23
are those convesrations recorded/documented in case required?
Rachel Almeida
44:18
Hi everyone, please select 'All panellists and attendees' this will enable all participants to see your questions and chat
Jon Crawford
44:32
We are doing similar, but rather than quartiles we are giving fractional grades
Sarah Rigby
44:51
Thanks Rachel!
nicola welland
44:52
Is here a mandatory requirement to rank the students in number order rather than quartile range ?
Barbara Yates
45:17
We have done similar but broken into 3 levels in grade
Mikhaila Ellington
46:09
it seems different colleges are using different methods.
Elizabeth Sheppard
46:41
it will obviously depend on size of cohort
sarabjit borrill
47:01
What happens with learners who have not sat formal assessments/mocks?
Carolyn Langford
47:46
I wonder how different processes will be standardized? Bit of a mindfield for AOs
Sarah Rigby
48:12
I am ranking all my students together (I am not separating adults from 16-18). Would be useful to understand what the concern is regarding ranking adults and 16-18 all together. They take the same exam (at the tier entered obviously), so they are all judged together. Results can still be seen separately.
Lorraine Herity
48:28
We are taking the same approach at Hertford Regional College for English. Will deal with the clusters by looking at those individual students attendance, subject reports and Pro-Monitor comments.
Ian Patten
48:48
When colleges finished in March, students would have been on GCSE for quite some time and most students should have at least done some sort of mock or unit tests I would imagine
Catherine Sezen
48:51
Hi Sylvia, Yes we will gather the questions get back to everyone. We will TRY to answer as many as possible and when we have updates from Ofqual.
Bronagh Quigley
49:03
what if your predictions are significantly different to previous years’ data?
Ian Mathieson
49:33
Really useful to see a process. Thank you. If 'average' is taken for ranking...what if A sat the 6 assessments required but B only sat 1 as B is a bit lazy and attends less?
Jon Crawford
49:34
I know it is outside the scope of this webinar, but is there any word on Functional Skills
Elizabeth Sheppard
49:50
because it has an impact on pass % for daytime learners if exam boards look at past data. Adults don't normally go in with overall results for college data
Helen Watts
49:59
We're also using statistical data to moderate within our organization and provide an overall ranking.
Tony Giland
49:59
Very helpful, thank you Catherine.
nicola welland
50:27
Id appreciate a copy of the guidance please
Randeep Sami
50:28
Thank you for sharing Catherine
Graeme Baker
50:34
To JC - most likely calculated also in scope of VTQs rather than general
Catherine Sezen
50:51
Hi Jon, Functional Skills form part of vocational and technical. Further information will be available in the near future.
Roxana Pal
51:06
Have you reviewed your predicted grade profile and in what way it compares to centre performance in previous years? If significantly varied, are you taking additional steps to realign with average of previous years or submit as such and expect boards to make any moderation adjustments?
Vanessa Wallace
51:08
Did you do any comparisons with previous grade trends and adjust to keep them in line with those trends?
Sunjeong Shin
51:13
Just like to share what we do to sort a rank order: 1. Teachers assign grades. 2. Then assign a sub grade, e.g., within Grade 5 we have from 5.1 top to 5.5 bottom, all based on mock results. 3. Where there are ties, we then look at their progress check results (assessments during the course). 4. Where there are ties, we look at attendance and participation/homework.
Sarah Rigby
51:50
Looks good Sunjeong
Janet Annetts
51:52
What about students who are completely on the borderline 3/4 who you really do not know as some of them just do better than you expected?
Vicky Evans
52:08
Really useful thank you
Tony Mangan
52:23
Very useful Catherine, thank you.
Sarah Rigby
52:25
We have been advised not to give the benefit of the doubt.
Diane Thurston
52:43
Re comments above - process applied by Access to HE students by AOs is very time-consuming for our teachers. It is an admin burden and distracting from the rigorous process focussed on professional judgement of teachers. Realise this is part of VTQ consultation but ATHE should be considered along with A levels - these are peer students
Ian Mathieson
53:05
Sarah Rigby....our FT learners are treated as resit....follow 5Rs and have sat 6 assessments. Adults are taught differently and have only had one mock exam...second was due Mar 20! Can still predict. Just difficult to rank in with the FT. For us.
Sarah Whitehurst
53:35
Thank you Catherine, it was really helpful and answered some of the concerns I had.
Helena Platt
54:16
Has anyone thought about comparing performance at curriculum area level- so for example Motor Vehicle students generally get xx% 4 grades in English
Sarah Rigby
54:20
I also take a different approach with adults but they have the same assessments as 16-18 cohort. Agree it is not easy.
Sarah Rigby
54:54
Thanks for replying Ian.
Bronagh Quigley
55:19
Helena we are using curriculum area data and teacher data as part of the moderation process
Carol Layall
55:25
Yes Helena going to use previous years grades by area
Helen Watts
55:25
Hi Helena. Yes, our next step is to review at department level using 3 year trend data
John Chance
56:12
Helena, yes similar to Carol and Helen, we are looking at curriculum level data over previous years.
Hilary Gardner
56:18
Adult learners start at a different base line to 16-18 because they will have not studied for many years . This means their progress may look slower to begin with then take a massive leap at the end
Helen Watts
56:18
We're using pass data though and not achievement data
Sarah Rigby
56:54
I am also looking at previous 3 years achievement data.
Barbara Yates
57:06
I agree with Hilary
sarabjit borrill
57:23
I agree with Hilary - for adult learners.
Sarah Rigby
57:48
Hilary - yes that can happen and that is something that can be considered in your decision.
Janet Annetts
57:55
Thank you Emma - I needed to hear this!
Vicky Evans
58:04
Thanks Emma, really good to hear
Barbara Yates
58:20
Thank you Emma
Carolyn Langford
58:30
thank you emma
Kelly Baxter
59:20
When considering your adult grades, I am right in thinking that you have to take into consideration the progress the student/adult would of made had they had the teaching/revision up until the exam.
Jon Crawford
59:25
Is it correct to say that these centre assessed grades will not be used for ranking et cetera
sarabjit borrill
59:41
Is there any opportunity to not allocate an adult learner a grade as there may not be enough evidence?
Carol Layall
59:47
is anyone going to WD a student based on the fact that they would probably have not attended on the day?
Helen Watts
01:00:08
You can predict a Grade U
Sarah Rigby
01:00:16
Very difficult to avoid subconscious judgement of learners completing work since 20th March.
Bronagh Quigley
01:00:30
we are predicting x and U
Ian Mathieson
01:00:52
We are taking teacher integrity for prediction. We use a RAG all year for likely progress from entry grade. For us this is ongoing and natural. We are then ranking by top 2 scores in formal assessments from a max of 6 opportunities Where ties using assessment 6 (most recent) then % attendance. Takes subjectivity out of the ranking.
Randeep Sami
01:01:50
@Sarah Rigby - I don't know how tutors will be able to avoid this scenario, especially if they have students who are sharing rank positions with other learners and who are really engaging with their tutors and producing quality work.
Darren Hindley
01:02:05
Who will pay for the Nov resits if students have not sat an exam?
Joanne Walkeden
01:02:49
Yes edexcel have said that they are ranked together
Helena Platt
01:03:03
An extension to the submission date I feel is needed - guidance for colleges has been slow - still waiting for more guidance next week.
Yasmin Simmonds
01:03:23
If an adult learner is awarded a grade 4, but wants to sit the exam in Nov- do they have to pay or will they be funded?
Sarah Rigby
01:03:42
Randeep, Ofqual guidance is that students who are not doing work should not be disadvantaged. They may have other concerns or responsibilities that others don't have.
Ian Mathieson
01:03:54
Carol Layall....not sure....but we are predicting U grades. Difficult to predict they will not show
John Chance
01:04:07
prior attainment is not related to adult GCSE performance
Jenny Craig
01:04:11
AQA has announced that the window for submitting grades and rank orders is 1-12 June
Tina Randall
01:05:09
Hi have boundaries been produced for A levels thanks
Sarah Rigby
01:05:23
Ian/Carol, I am including grade U, again it it based on what you know of the learner and what you consider would have most likely happened if exams had gone ahead.
Helen Brown
01:05:43
We have followed almost the same process as NCL however we have three sets of grades that we next need to merge: 16-18, 19+ and a subcontractor for 19+. GCSE's are taught in separate faculties for 16-18 and 19+ and the subcontractor off site. How would you recommend ranking students that are at same level apart from attendance data? Thanks
Margaret Dodd
01:06:17
Has there been any specific guidance regarding the format and content of the Head of Centre Letter
Carolyn Langford
01:07:12
Margaret, what is the HoC letter?
Catherine Moody
01:07:23
We have the same, Helen. We have sent out a standardised point scoring system. We are then going to collate this and have a meeting as a team.
Carolyn Langford
01:07:31
Do you mean final sign off confirmation?
Sarah Rigby
01:08:56
Kelly, I would say yes.
Vicky Evans
01:09:15
Workshop - yes please
Mikhaila Ellington
01:09:21
definitely interested in workshop
sarabjit borrill
01:09:23
Workshop - yes
Barbara Yates
01:09:34
Yes please
Graeme Baker
01:09:34
Workshop - yes
Mary Fretwell
01:09:36
Yes - workshop please
Laura Archer
01:09:40
yes
Jaspal Dhaliwal
01:09:40
Yes, a workshop would be useful where we can bring queries/ case studies
Christopher Jack
01:09:54
workshop yes please
tracey. atkins
01:10:07
Yes please, workshop
Rachel Smith
01:10:18
Yes please workshop would be useful
Sharon Lane
01:10:20
We also have concerns regarding Access so would like to know your view too
Tony Giland
01:10:22
That would be great
Elaine Day
01:10:23
It would be useful to have a workshop to look at individual case studies
Marc Evason
01:11:08
Workshop sounds great, what do you think Gurinder?
Carolyn Langford
01:11:36
I would definitely welcome an update on VoC as we are receiving dozens of emails from them which are unclear
Sarah Pink
01:11:49
I always thought that the autumn series was the November sitting!
Sandra Connor
01:12:16
Yes please, to the workshop
Helena Platt
01:12:24
When is the announcement expected regarding OFQUAL
Christopher Jack
01:13:03
is the Autumn exam the same as November exam or are these separate?
Sarah Pink
01:13:07
Can we do the same for FS
Vanessa Wallace
01:14:05
Are colleges in general finding their grades are coming out better than previous years? If so, are you adjusting them?
Margaret Dodd
01:14:36
There is a requirement to submit a HoC sign off statement
Helen Watts
01:14:44
There's informal talk of a 5% tolerance
Catherine Sezen
01:14:50
FS - there will be more info when we get feedback on the VTQ consultation.
Alison Ford
01:14:51
Vanessa Wall - yes., we are now comparing to our previous years pass rates
Vanessa Wallace
01:15:02
thx
Jane Morrison
01:15:02
we are working towards no more or less than a 1-2% difference from last year
Diane Thurston
01:15:09
Clear that the process of centre assessment is the way forward! We can build on this! Thanks to all the panellists
Helen Watts
01:15:19
Where there's significant improvement we'll be scrutinizing and adjusting where agreed
Janet Annetts
01:15:24
Thank you for this - it has been very useful
Harriet Hadley
01:15:26
Thank you all
Vicky Evans
01:15:27
Thank you, really useful and informative
Kirsty Davey
01:15:28
Thank you very much, this has been very useful
nicola welland
01:15:29
Us too Helen
Lee Nevill
01:15:30
Thank you panel - much appreciated.
Sarah Rigby
01:15:31
Jane, I am aiming for the same.
Graeme Baker
01:15:31
Thank you
sarabjit borrill
01:15:31
Thank you. Very useful.
Rachel Almeida
01:15:31
Presentation and recordings will be available by the end of the day on the AoC website and we will send a link to everyone
Iain McKenna
01:15:33
Thankyou
Jaspal Dhaliwal
01:15:36
Thank you
Rachel Smith
01:15:37
Thank you
Julie Scott
01:15:38
thank you