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Good afternoon all
Hello everyone! Welcome to this Q&A session!
Please could you mute your microphones!
Good afternoon everyone.
For me creating a sense of community will be crucial next year. Have you considered students working together as a group (and be assessed in that way) ? After all, most modern workplaces require some form o collaboration so shouldn’t we also offer that time of assessment?
Carlos: I am thinking of moving my econometric research project from an individual submission to group-based assignment.
How can we make online exams more effective for an Econometrics - UG module?
Students always tell us they want to study together collaboratively. Then when group assessment comes, they complain that peers deliver different types of effort and it is unfair the team is awarded the same mark. I got a bit hard-core on this and remind students that working in teams will be the standard when they will join a company or a business for their first job.
@Carlos: I will definitely set up group project work for my stats/intro to econometrics module this year. Will consider also asking the students to give a live presentation on zoom/teams
@Carlos: I carefully thought about that. This is tricky and it also depends on the number of assessments student have. I would not be confortable to give a very high weight on a group work. One never knows the actual commitment of each group member.
Spot on Steve, what's the difference between coursework and online exam open-book?
I am having problems listening to the speakers… is it just me?
Audio is clear for me. Anyone else having difficulties?
i cant hear too
I can hear fine
I am OK
@Stephen - totally agree. Expecting students to memorise formulae for example is a waste of time… in the real world people will simply find it in seconds online!
i still cant hear
I can NEVER remember the exact syntax for the reshape command!
When I worked in consultancy and government, the thing I had to do daily was read empirical work by others and consider whether it was robust and what it was actually telling me. Anybody assess that ability? Maybe with policy-focused empirical work (not academic papers)
Thank you so much.
The big challenge is that we need to train students on how to source reliable information now.
@Antonia: perhaps try to log out and login again?
Great question @fabio
Employers also want students to know how to learn new things. Could you give them a new challenge and link to a YouTube video with instructions on some new approach and see if they can do that?
The main difference between coursework and exam will only be the time of the year it takes place: housework during term and exam after term is over…
Some colleagues argue that a short deadline (e.g. 24hrs exam) reduces plagiarism. I find it quite a sad differentiation.
@Fabio: agree with you about helping students to separate good from less good information/knowledge
@fabio: I guess it depends how the assessment is designed. I had a colleague that set a 24h, 100% MCQ and there was a lot of collusion (unsurprisingly)…
Yes, it is important that students are able to have a critical thinking as well as analytical skills. With the enormous information, being able to select the important points and link them in a logical way is crucial, above all for employability purposes.
We either do things properly, e.g. online proctoring, or use different tools. Reducing time is not a good way, unless you want to test speed as Stefania says.
I am teaching econometrics using both slides and the whiteboard (for proofs, etc). Now, moving to the online teaching, what other alternatives for the whiteboard?
Turnitin does not pick up hand written equations/graphs and similar. Is that an issue?
@Cloda, on formula you wouldn't expect different answers, so tehre wouldn't be a way to pick up plagiarism
Agree with Fabio, the limited timing should be used to test students ability to work under pressure within time-limits.
@Hussain You can use MS OneNote as a whiteboard
Most econometricians I know, in private and public sector and academia, don't work at speed!
What about tight word limits (and long time limits)?
Thank God for that @Cloda. There are also issues related to inclusivity that work against speed test.
@Cloda are you suggesting that econometricians are 'slow' people? :)
@Carlos, I am in favour of very tight word limits
giving concise answers are important
I think some epidemiologists are doing statistics against the clock at the moment!
Yes @Ralf! Word limits are good and wise.
Word limits are useful, as students may be asked to write on different length's reports. This is good to explore. I am doing that.
I think it might be easier to detect free riding when the work is done online as students must leave a footprint.
You need to teach students how to work in a group.
@Carlos - that's a very good point - you could design an assignment, hosted on, for instance, SharePoint - then every student's contribution could be evidenced very easily
Yes, very important to "educate" students on how to work in teams
I'm fascinated by two-stage exams. I feel it would create less tension amongst student. Student solve a problem on their own, submit, and then work with others on the same problem. Final mark being a combination of individual and collective effort.
Fabio- very interesting
Yes, I'm keen to try this out.
@Fabio: the bundle you propose is promising
@Fabio, have you got experience with that? Would be keen to see an example
This is a nice blog on two-stage exams: https://teachbetter.co/blog/2018/04/03/all-in-on-two-stage-exams/
@fabio do you know of somebody who tried two-stage exams? any feedback?
I do group work on wiki so I can see who contributed when. Plus get peer feedback on each other during term that means individual may get mark different from group (+/-5%)
True for students who know each other @Steve. Need to help new 1st years/MSc students to get to know each other.
Thanks @Cloda. No experience with Economics but trying to get some resources
@Cloda - I agree about the networks - and building them when they arrive will be the most difficult thing
@cloda: with peer evaluation do you only allow a variation of +/-5 marks from the awarded mark?
Yes, that was all my Faculty would allow for individual contribution @guglielmo but I have had far less free-riding complaints since even that was introduced. Plus I pick up on issues early from first survey as I see all the feedback.
@Ralph...I completely agree with you on this. Students appreciate this very much.
Photos uploaded from phones??
i think i will encourage students to load this app on their phone: https://www.ipevo.com/software/idoccam
that was @Guigelmo's suggestion on the above website
Apologies I have to leave a bit early, really interesting discussion. Many thanks.
bye Ghulam! thanks for coming along!
UCL also encouraged students to use ipevo.com for scanning handwritten materials for all Term 3 assessments.
Should we be introducing coding earlier in the curriculum to overcome the fear?
I have spoken to data scientists at various organisations this week and they really want graduates to understand 'logic' of coding more than knowing the programme itself. Essentially how to set up the logic of what they are doing before they plug it into a programme. Largely cause they keep changing what programmes they use, including some designing their own internal coding methods.
Maybe we should focus on the output of coding (i.e. what you do with the output) more so students perceive the benefits of doing it?
I'd say so Pete. Gradual progression is important for me.
Indeed, if a skill is core just embed it earlier. However, let's remember that what @Cloda's work is telling us is that what employers mostly (or more widely) want is low-key data analysis and intuition, so maybe we need to differentiate across different tracks and student interests...
I show students some basic of programming/macros in Excel just to make them understand the logic behind coding
We at Exeter created a Introduction to Data Science module in year 1 that then feeds into other modules...
It is important that students develop and exposed to a range of skills. Agree that Excel should not be overlooked, especially from an employability perspective.
..in year 1
indeed excel should be a fundamental skill
OK, @Stefanie raising an interesting point. Coding is useful to really understand what happens in a regression or procedure. The pedagogical function of coding is great.
Ability to source and prepare data is often a skill overlooked in the teaching econometrics.
Done my homework.Two-stage Exams. David Nicol is the expert. He spoke to me about these while we shared a session a few years ago.Here’s a nice contribution he wrote with a colleague in Glasgow: https://www.slideshare.net/secret/yED4dFSHqkhZEQFrom David Nicol, also interesting to have a look at: https://bit.ly/3fD4QOX and: https://bit.ly/2zM4INTBack to two-stage processes: worth looking into PBL (very popular in pharmacy and health sciences).
My comment on two stage exams is thank you for bringing it to my attention
I think the chat will be part of the video by default?
I'll also add any relevant links to the symposium page
Lots of colleagues in US use two-stage in economics.
Thank you for all the contributions
Great to see so many familiar faces… Thanks a lot for this opportunity
Very interesting discussion. Thank you all.
Thank you for joining!
Thank you - lots of lovely ideas for me to follow up!
Thank you. Bye everyone.