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Central Wasatch Commission Mountain Transportation System Summit - Shared screen with speaker view
Aaron London
00:59
I see all participants for chat
Lindsey Nielsen
01:53
super
David Stein
02:46
That's better!
Nate Furman
11:20
Thank you Blake!
Carolyn Keigley
11:22
Can you also publish the chat comments?
Carl Fisher, Save Our Canyons
11:49
Folks might need to rename themselves to include org/entity
P Shea Future Generations
15:00
I want to express something. Pat
Ralph Becker, CWC
15:32
Please go ahead, Pat.
Lindsey Nielsen
20:44
See the MTS Draft Alternatives Report here: https://mcusercontent.com/d039de63a7bcadab6bef83ace/files/9800a2a8-3320-488a-b11e-73c26018966a/CWC_MTS_Draft_Alternatives_Report_Updated_9.18.20.pdf
Lindsey Nielsen
21:06
See the MTS Summit agenda here: https://cwc.utah.gov/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/CWC_Summit_Agenda_11.20-_v2.pdf
Grant Amann
29:37
I think they might be talking about not wanting to pave over native land.
Ellen Birrell
29:38
3600 stalls at BCC Induces car demand to foothill corridor. Reduce this by utilizing regional parking east/west along Ft Union, 9400 South and other arteries and run small, frequent, free transit based on recreation demand times (i.e. Fri, Sat, Sun) year round.
Cttnwds Exprs - David Stein
29:51
The Cottonwoods Express would be usable 24/7 year-round with on-demand service. It would be so superior to driving on the surface that hardly anyone will choose to drive.
Ellen Birrell
30:11
Getting cars out of canyons is good, but moving those cars to the foothills is also bad.
Cttnwds Exprs - David Stein
30:33
Don't we want to disincentivize driving personal vehicles up the canyons?
Cttnwds Exprs - David Stein
31:07
To do that, we really need our MTS to be so superior to driving that people choose to use the MTS instead of driving.
Cttnwds Exprs - David Stein
32:27
The Cottonwoods Express proposal includes using 25 different existing parking areas distributed around the service area. To reduce congestion you have to distribute the access points and have many of them. If you have the same number of access points as current, you just change where the congestion is.
Cttnwds Exprs - David Stein
33:15
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1kfsbonyy4dqr04/Cottonwoods%20Express%20proposal%20V3.2.pdf?dl=0
Grant Amann
41:34
Along with equipment***
Cttnwds Exprs - David Stein
48:18
The Cottonwoods Express would have exits at all trailheads and bike and ski/snowboard racks.
Lindsey Nielsen
48:44
If anyone needs help, call me directly at 801-706-1004
Carl Fisher, Save Our Canyons
49:48
I think it is about 9000 total
Kim Mayhew- Solitude
50:56
For Solitude: Parking spot number vary with snow removal schedules but Solitude has 2 lots with an average daily capacity of about 1500 spots
Barbara Cameron-Big Cottonwood Community Council
51:14
In BCC there are approximately 2,300 roadside parking places.
Carl Fisher, Save Our Canyons
55:00
A graphic on existing parking from the study Blake referred to
Grant Amann
56:01
Great image, very informative.
Barbara Cameron-Big Cottonwood Community Council
56:49
You're the BEST Blake!
Barbara Cameron-Big Cottonwood Community Council
58:45
It's true!
John Knoblock
59:21
More dispersed parking with shuttle buses is good.
Cttnwds Exprs - David Stein
01:00:21
So 10,300 spaces near the base, up the canyons, and at the ski resorts. 3,600 seems a bit low. Use existing dispersed parking lots. We don't need to pave paradise, put up a parking lot.
Carl Fisher, Save Our Canyons
01:01:23
I guess we’d like the idea of spreading out parking lots around the valley, rather than a big one or two at the mouth. It seems like this may just shift the problem that’s being held IN the canyons further onto I-15
Carl Fisher, Save Our Canyons
01:01:49
*I-215
Carolyn Keigley, Brighton town council
01:02:50
Will these costs and additions of pavement, etc be outdated 30 years from now. If so, doesn't it make sense to think much more into the future and what is sustainable like a future reservation system?Will these costs and additions of pavement, etc be outdated 30 years from now. If so, doesn't it make sense to think much more into the future and what is sustainable like a future reservation system?
Ellen Birrell
01:02:54
The idea is it would lower VMT. Our goal for better air quality is to lower Vehicle Miles Travelled.
Cttnwds Exprs - David Stein
01:03:29
The Cottonwoods Express proposal utilizes 25 existing parking lots distributed geographically around the Salt Lake valley. Also tied into UTA transit spots (bus and train stations).
Cttnwds Exprs - David Stein
01:04:15
With free or discount EV charging at all valley stations. We really need to improve our air quality.
Cttnwds Exprs - David Stein
01:04:39
Solar powered EV charging, btw.
Ellen Birrell
01:05:13
Air quality is better when air is filtered through greenery and on the other hand, clearing vegetation and replacing it with asphalt raises summer temperatures, increases CO2, pollutes air. Reduces and disincentivize private car use through fewer parking spaces and for which drivers pay dearly if used.
Cttnwds Exprs - David Stein
01:06:41
Best is to make it so that using mass transit is so superior to driving that few choose to drive. And free.
Aaron Dekeyzer
01:06:57
The comments that mention a shift are correct, and are a huge part of the problem that a regional transportation plan needs to address. In other words, large hubs do not function to disincentivize automobile use, instead they shift that use, and thus create congestion. I like the thoughts on distributing parking as part of a greater network, and identifying sites that can be repurposed
Steve Van Maren-Sandy Resident
01:07:03
We can all save the chat.
Steve Van Maren-Sandy Resident
01:07:24
Suggest the poll include "DIspersed minor hubs"
Cttnwds Exprs - David Stein
01:07:26
At the bottom of the chat window there is a … which has Save Chat as an option. Do it just before the meeting ends.
Cttnwds Exprs - David Stein
01:08:06
Large Hubs get congested themselves.
Cttnwds Exprs - David Stein
01:08:24
Exactly Carl!
Lindsey Nielsen
01:08:35
Yep! We intend to save all of this conversation in the chat bar. Thanks, all.
Cttnwds Exprs - David Stein
01:09:30
The Cottonwoods Express, once extended to The U and SLC airport will also have that utility year-round 24/7.
Cttnwds Exprs - David Stein
01:10:08
Especially with the Tesla Network ride-sharing system tied into the Cottonwoods Express stations network.
Cttnwds Exprs - David Stein
01:11:41
To support regular transit needs, not just the canyons.
Mike Christensen, Utah Rail Passengers Association
01:12:11
Can't submit unless you answer all the questions!
Cttnwds Exprs - David Stein
01:14:44
The Cottonwoods Express would remove much of the Wasatch Blvd traffic heading to BCC and LCC. The people movement would be invisible with no surface congestion.
KIRK NICHOLS
01:16:01
1a Most people should arrive at the canyons in their final mode of transportation for going up the canyon. Few stops at the mouth of the canyons. Create dispersed, smaller hubs through out the valley.
Christopher Robinson, CWC Chair
01:16:39
I am glad that Wasatch Blvd has been elevated into the discussion with these goals. Thanks!
Ellen Birrell
01:16:56
THIS is FOR CARLTON C: Lack of a north/south commuter service for folks who live in southeastern quadrant has never been viably addressed. UTA needs to be financially supported to provide true Express Bus service to improve ridership. Too many stops and transfers for north/south commuters to Res Park/U of U. BRT, Express Buses and/or Light Rail that uses existing thoroughfares such as Highland Drive & I-215 up Foothill Drive is necessary. Without this included, CWC’s regional suggestions will not be as impactful and positive.
Ralph Becker, CWC
01:17:00
While CWC says it will support Cottonwood Heights, this is a UDOT road.
Steve Van Maren-Sandy Resident
01:17:27
1a - Agree with KIrk Nichols
Ralph Becker, CWC
01:17:56
And, UDOT has received an appropriation to acquire land and build a parking lot adjacent to the road.
Robert Douglass
01:19:20
Given that Cottonwood Heights raised the zoning of parcels N. of LLC North leading to Wasatch by 20 to 60-fold, it is clear we should not blindly defer to Cottonwood Heights decision making regarding the Wasatch corridor. Wasatch Blvd. is UDOT’s purview and changes are paid for by the tax payers of the State, not Cottonwood Hts. Are they not?
John Knoblock
01:19:40
Sorry but I don't agree with that Kirk.
Julianna Christie
01:27:13
Comments on Regional Transit Hubs…
Carolyn Keigley, Brighton town council
01:27:23
Question 1 Will these costs and additions of pavement, etc be outdated 30 years from now. If so, doesn't it make sense to think much more into the future and what is sustainable like a future reservation system in the canyons?
Cttnwds Exprs - David Stein
01:27:28
Oppose since it would just relocate the congestion instead of solving it.
Ned Hacker-WFRC
01:28:01
,
Bob Pruitt
01:28:01
Regional transit hub should co-locate with high density commercial/housing and parking lots
Cttnwds Exprs - David Stein
01:28:24
To be sustainable our MTS must be totally powered by renewable energy.
Caroline Rodriguez, Summit County
01:28:54
Favor in concept with a lot more refinement and robust transit connection and echo hat @bob Pruitt said. Also should be designed to accommodate and complement Cottonwood Heights masterplan for Wasatch Blvd.
P Shea Future Generations
01:28:57
#1 Dispersed parking so we avoid a traffic jam on Wasatch Blvd.
Cttnwds Exprs - David Stein
01:29:33
The Gravel Pit hub would congest the entrance to BCC.
Ellen Birrell
01:29:51
When I “favor” regional transit hubs, I also want “dispersed hubs, too”
Michael Maughan
01:30:04
#1 Recommend more than 2 hubs and more balance between the hubs
P Shea Future Generations
01:30:12
Second question - depends on the location of the various regional parking areas
bart reuling
01:30:23
more dispersed parking will reduce congestion on Wasatch blvd
Ned Hacker-WFRC
01:31:01
One project objective is to reduce congestion on Wasatch Blvd and a transit hub in the gravel pit would NOT help promote this objective.
Mike Marker-LCC res
01:31:10
Hubs work best when they are located next to major vehicle modes, avoid standard surface streets as much can be done
Caroline Rodriguez, Summit County
01:32:11
B, sorry if I misunderstood but I would be in favor of regional hubs in general. Im not wed to the gravel pit. I should've clarified.
Lisa Bagley
01:32:18
So what I am hearing is: Ellen does not like the idea of a hub a “Gravel Pit” - Cottonwood Heights would like to do Mix Use Development/parntered with UDOT- and Laura is concerned with Green/Environmental impact on the new water treatment plant. The “Gravel Pit” is currently not green. Could a planned, mix-use, green hub be planned with Laura/slc input with Cottonwood Heights & UDOT?
Megan Anderson
01:32:27
I think the first poll should be done again with only residents answering.
Ralph Becker, CWC
01:32:52
Megan, do you mean residents of CH?
Megan Anderson
01:33:16
The people who are not on the planning committee.
John Knoblock
01:33:17
too slow to vote with my question My input is spend those big bucks on more dispersed parking locations with frequent shuttle vans to catch ski bus or gondola et al
Steve Van Maren-Sandy Resident
01:33:52
Clarifying Question: would there be a new Frontrunner station?
Aaron Dekeyzer
01:33:53
Frequent shuttle vans could also be electrified more easily, which speaks to David’s previous point
Megan Anderson
01:33:54
There was confusion as to who should answer. I am in agreement that those people planning should not answer.
Cttnwds Exprs - David Stein
01:34:25
The Cottonwoods Express will connect to existing UTA bus and train stations.
Cttnwds Exprs - David Stein
01:35:17
Page 3 of the proposal shows the proposed station locations.
Cttnwds Exprs - David Stein
01:35:28
25 different locations.
Steve Van Maren-Sandy Resident
01:35:51
Suggestion: Transfer at Murray Central from Frontrunner to TRAX, and use Sandy Historic station on TRAX.
Caroline Rodriguez, Summit County
01:36:34
yes
Caroline Rodriguez, Summit County
01:36:36
Summit County
Caroline Rodriguez, Summit County
01:36:55
fully electric express bus on Sr-224 that will be converted to BRT via dedicated running lanes
Caroline Rodriguez, Summit County
01:37:10
with electric you would have to install that charging capacity as well
Cttnwds Exprs - David Stein
01:37:11
The Cottonwoods Express is all solar-powered EV based.
Cttnwds Exprs - David Stein
01:38:04
All the Tesla EVs have regenerative braking and recover a significant proportion of the energy spent ascending when they later descend.
John Knoblock
01:38:14
Maybe fuel cell buses are an option for BRT
Cttnwds Exprs - David Stein
01:38:46
The Tesla EVs have a capacity of five people. Individual families only. Single riders even supported.
Cttnwds Exprs - David Stein
01:39:06
Tesla Model X an Model Y with 5-person seating.
Grant Amann
01:39:49
also con: people prefer comforts of cars- its hard hard to convert people out of those comforts.
Cttnwds Exprs - David Stein
01:40:14
With ski racks during ski season and bike racks the rest of the year. A mix on "shoulder" seasons.
Cttnwds Exprs - David Stein
01:40:53
The Cottonwoods Express will also be a world-class system that will be the best on the planet for an MTS.
Grant Amann
01:41:02
agreed -- are there any talks of working with bus manufacturers?
Friends of Alta - Kyle Maynard
01:42:36
Preliminary test in LCC for electric bus: from leaving its depot going up LCC and coming down, the battery only dropped from 90% to 65%. 7% battery charge was regained on the way down the canyon. The quick charging infrastructure already being used in downtown could recharge the buses in a matter of minutes
KIRK NICHOLS
01:43:23
Kyle, was the test bus loaded to capacity or empty?
Caroline Rodriguez, Summit County
01:44:08
@Kyle Maynard. Similar experience in Park City. Cold was more of an issue than incline. We tested runs up to the Montage at the top of DV.
Caroline Rodriguez, Summit County
01:44:15
And we were loaded
Cttnwds Exprs - David Stein
01:44:59
One big advantage of the Cottonwoods Express being in tunnels is that temperature year-round is in the 50's and totally unaffected by snow.
Mike Marker-LCC res
01:46:13
A high capacity transit to move visitors up 9400 to transfer to 2nd transit hub seems inconvenient at best, worst if you a schlepping ski gear
Laura Briefer
01:46:30
Can high capacity transit still be financially feasible if we have to manage recreational overuse issues?
Carolyn Keigley, Brighton town council
01:47:04
I agree with Laura Briefer
Cttnwds Exprs - David Stein
01:47:04
Lauren, could you elaborate on "recreational overuse issues"?
Laura Briefer
01:48:02
Too much recreational use exceeding the capacity to manage the environmental and watershed impacts. The risk of loving the Wasatch to death.
Cttnwds Exprs - David Stein
01:48:04
Buses use the same congested roads. They are fine for a stopgap measure, but not a permanent solution.
Carl Fisher, Save Our Canyons
01:49:21
I think a con could be that some of these things may force a mode shift or transfer… which as we understand are a huge disincentive to transit use
William McCarvill
01:50:34
I agree with Laura at wat point how do we stop pumping more people up into the mountains.
Carl Fisher, Save Our Canyons
01:50:50
Thanks Kerry… that helped clarify the termini questions. It wasn’t clear
Ralph Becker, CWC
01:50:50
Good points on visitor use increases from transportation improvements. Note that our objectives and attributes for the MTS address this point as a priority consideration.
michael allegra
01:50:52
A high capacity E-W transit line in the SE Quadrant is consistent with UTA’s long range vision and adds to their network
Cttnwds Exprs - David Stein
01:51:14
If the Cottonwoods Express covers LCC, BCC, and the Wasatch Back, it could be used with real-time data to encourage and enable dispersal of pressures across a much larger area. It could even have displays showing how many people have been delivered to each area, so riders could change their minds to go to a less crowded area. It also could tie into ski resorts systems if they limit ticket sales to redirect people seamlessly to other resorts.
P Shea Future Generations
01:54:33
We need to think in a calculus mind frame with with multiple variable, not in a simple arithmetic. And, as with any calculus formulation the sequence which variables are resolved is extremely important, if not critical.
Michael Maughan
01:54:55
Agree, that it will be a deterrent to have to change transportation modes
Aaron Dekeyzer
01:56:00
Will and Laura, I previously asked a canyon capacity question, and Ellen brought it up also. I’ve expressed this concern to Ralph and believe it is s fundamental question that remains unanswered
Cttnwds Exprs - David Stein
01:56:01
The Cottonwoods Express has one of it's main routes being under 9400S.
Ralph Becker, CWC
01:56:09
And, this isn't purely a quantitative calculous. It is qualitative and an art for decision makers.
Julianna Christie
01:56:21
Comments in response to High Capacity Transit along 9400 s
Carolyn Keigley, Brighton town council
01:57:10
question 2 From Laura Briefer to Everyone: 03:24 PMquestion 2 From Laura Briefer to Everyone: 03:24 PMToo much recreational use exceeding the capacity to manage the environmental and watershed impacts. The risk of loving the Wasatch to death.
KIRK NICHOLS
01:57:33
2. This mode would be best if it continues up the canyon w/o needing to "schlep" skis between modes
P Shea Future Generations
01:57:50
Question 3 Depends totally on the sequence of where the 9400 rapid transit would occur.
Steve Van Maren-Sandy Resident
01:57:52
2: Opposition due to impact on local traffic.
Lisa Bagley
01:57:55
Is the parking lot, business (Lowe’s) on 90th and 1-15 still vacant?
Cttnwds Exprs - David Stein
01:57:58
9400S if it's not on the surface causing more congestion.
Ellen Birrell
01:58:44
Shopko parking lot is vacant and so is Market Fresh parking lot south of 9400 S.
Carl Fisher, Save Our Canyons
01:58:58
Man, If I learned anything in 2020 it is not to trust polls!
David Carroll (WBA)
01:59:08
2. Second Kirk’s observation.
Laura Hanson, UTA
01:59:14
@Carl LOL
Aaron London (WBA)
01:59:20
😂
Cttnwds Exprs - David Stein
02:01:20
The Cottonwoods Express southern route goes out 9400S to State St. then down to W11400S out to Herriman HS.
Steve Van Maren-Sandy Resident
02:01:36
Is this with or without canyon tolling?
Blake Perez CWC
02:01:51
tolling will be discussed shortly
Ralph Becker, CWC
02:02:01
Keep following options as we look at different segments of the geography. When we get to the end, we'll want to evaluate the modes comprehensively.
Laura Briefer
02:02:02
In my mind the benefits of the different transit options also depend on whether there will be limitations or restrictions imposed on cars. Just a general comment.
Cttnwds Exprs - David Stein
02:03:01
Articulated buses have no real provision for gear bags and skis and snowboards. Those will reduce capacity.
Aaron London (WBA)
02:04:03
Last season the ski racks were removed from the ski busses to accommodate increased ridership, yes?
John Knoblock
02:04:10
My continued concern with buses up the canyon is that they are stuck in the same traffic and accidents closing the LCC road. Separate bus express lane is not likely to work when the road is snow covered.
Caroline Rodriguez, Summit County
02:06:03
I need to switch devices so I might miss the poll, but I am not in favor of this option because it works against the psychology of transit riders. In every study, every survey, every anything ever conducted, the #1 demand riders make is "more frequent service." Peak service only works in certain circumstances and the diverse use and demand for the Canyons is not one of those circumstances.
Grant Amann
02:06:31
Well Spoken Michael Maughan!!!
Lorin Simpson-UTA
02:06:47
Chains and seating arrangement are the primary differences in current ski vs valley bus system. Ski buses are currently 35 foot, valley buses are 40 foot. Some adjustements in tight turns at parking lots in the canyons would be needed to use 40 foot buses easily.
Lorin Simpson-UTA
02:07:08
transmission and engine are similar
William McCarvill
02:07:50
So transit hubs will not be needed
Aaron Dekeyzer
02:07:55
Smaller shuttle service would solve so many of these problems… UTA - what do you know about the future of running more smaller shuttles?
Ralph Becker, CWC
02:08:27
We will be getting to another element on improving SL Valley transit.
P Shea Future Generations
02:08:52
Mike,
Mike Marker-LCC res
02:09:23
At what point in time does the need to protect other interests over take personal transportation preference
P Shea Future Generations
02:10:04
If there are alternatives which cost more money like a tolling booth that would encourage bus riding.
Laura Briefer
02:10:08
Good question Mike Marker.
Cttnwds Exprs - David Stein
02:10:10
I agree Caroline, a big feature of the Cottonwoods Express is a capacity of thousands of people per hour and totally on-demand. Rapid transit as well. I15/4500S to Alta in < 9 minutes.
Carl Fisher, Save Our Canyons
02:10:26
You’re right its not a hate of buses… rather distain for how minimal the existing system is!
Grant Amann
02:10:30
Ski resorts could also have better dedicated bus drop off locations where putting on equipment is easy
Bert Granberg (WFRC)
02:10:30
Blake, …I would suggest this wording for the first additional question: “What are the barriers to running canyon-compatible express buses from more hubs, further from the mouth of the canyon?”
KIRK NICHOLS
02:10:32
Mike Maughan, what skiers want now (their own cars) is not working., hence the congestion. Anything we change will require a mind shift away from cars.
Kerry Doane
02:10:57
@Aaron - thanks for the question. Smaller shuttles would actually be more expensive because we'd have to run more buses to carry the same number of people which would take more operators (drivers) and labor is our biggest expense,
Laura Hanson, UTA
02:11:03
@aaron the biggest cost of transit service is the labor. We still have a pay a driver the same whether they are driving a big bus or a smaller vehicle. Smaller vehicles work well we need to move smaller numbers of people, or we are trying to service a large number of destinations. It doesn’t really save us any money, but smaller vehicles can navigate tighter streets a little better where that is a concern.
Grant Amann
02:11:49
is it possible to encourage ski resorts to pay some of that "more expensive" cost of smaller shuttles?
Cttnwds Exprs - David Stein
02:11:51
The MTS should be so compellingly better than driving that nobody wants to drive. The Cottonwoods Express will use only autonomous EVs so minimal labor costs (no drivers to pay).
Julianna Christie
02:12:33
Comments for year-round bus services..
P Shea Future Generations
02:13:09
Question 4 Costs vs. functionality.
Cttnwds Exprs - David Stein
02:13:15
Buses are not long-range sustainable as they are fossil fuel powered.
Cttnwds Exprs - David Stein
02:13:34
They also have high O&M costs.
Aaron Dekeyzer
02:13:51
Thanks Laura & Kerry, from what I’ve learned about technology it seems that self-driving is not too far out, but even if not, it would be good to see a comprehensive life-cycle cost analysis of these options
Lorin Simpson-UTA
02:14:24
Thanks Mike for the question about brakes on ski buses. Yes, ski buses have an additional brake system (Jake Break) for ski buses as opposed to regular buses.
Mike Marker-LCC res
02:14:26
Grant - Snowbird does utilize a lot of UTA shared vans for employees. It is we’ll supported.
Cttnwds Exprs - David Stein
02:14:41
Tesla Full Self Driving beta is going well and improving daily. By the time the Cottonwoods Express could be built it would definitely be reality.
Laura Hanson, UTA
02:14:53
The trade-off in extending transit to different areas within the valley is transit frequency vs. coverage. the larger the area you cover, the less frequent the service will be. Spread the resources out and you spread it thin.
bart reuling
02:15:39
I agree that bus service in the valley is the good alternative at this point, i hope it provides for flexibility if transportation modes change in the future
Carl Fisher, Save Our Canyons
02:15:59
I think the preference is for these buses to be electric, hence cleaner, quieter, an not fossil fuel dependent.
Lisa Bagley
02:16:43
This is a comment/info for my friend, Barbara to her question about fire mitigation. Senator Romney announced on Oct. 15th from Neff’f Canyon trailhead his intention to introduce new Federal Legislation fo a new Federal “Wildfire Commision” to address catastrophic fires before they start. Governor elect cox and Mayor Silvestrini were there as well. I hope the “Wildfire Commission” will bring all the stakeholders together for better forest fire mitigation in Millcreek, BCC, LCC Canyons.
William McCarvill
02:16:53
If a train can be electric so can a bus
Cttnwds Exprs - David Stein
02:18:38
UTA looked into EV buses and the technology isn't there quite yet. They are still subject to the same red snake and avalanche/accident closure issues.
Robert Douglass
02:18:40
Electric buses are fossil dependent, especially in Utah. It moves the pollution elsewhere in the Valley or State, which may be acceptable, maybe not. Since Utah uses a great deal of coal for electrical generation, electric buses could well generate more greenhouse emissions than hybrid diesels, for example, per NYT’s analysis.
Chris McCandless - CW Management Corp
02:18:55
Do you have the estimated drive times from each of these routes to the mobility hubs at the mouth's of BCC and LCC?
Chris McCandless - CW Management Corp
02:19:11
travel times, not drive times.
Barbara Cameron-Big Cottonwood Community Council
02:19:13
Thanks, Lisa. Wildfire Prevention is getting more attention. It's a good thing in these mature canyons.
Annalee Munsey, Metropolitan Water District
02:19:59
Why is "convenient" considered a con?
Ralph Becker, CWC
02:20:15
Good points on electric buses -- they are being used and improvements occurring. Please note the comments from UTA about how transit works with size of vehicles (cost efficiency), multiple stops, and issue of coverage v. frequency.
Cttnwds Exprs - David Stein
02:20:30
I agree Robert. Coal is also not sustainable and being thermal uses huge quantities of water in our arid state. You don't get steam to power turbines without water. The Cottonwoods Express will be totally solar powered with excess generation being sold to displace fossil generation. Rocky Mountain Power has stated they want to add no more fossil capacity.
Ralph Becker, CWC
02:20:36
"Less convenient"
John Knoblock
02:22:12
Are we discussing just enhancing the valley buses? vs up the canyon
Ralph Becker, CWC
02:22:47
We're focused in this segment on the Valley improvements to support Canyons travel.
Cttnwds Exprs - David Stein
02:23:49
Cottonwoods Express travel time from I15/4500S to Alta is less than 10 minutes. Consistently. Non-stop since the tunnels are like Interstate highways. Main traffic doesn't stop when a vehicle takes an exit. Since all autonomous, no "compressions" due to slow drivers.
William McCarvill
02:23:53
So are we not willing to put up with the time for bus traffic but will put up with the jam at the mouth of the canyons?
Mike Marker-LCC res
02:24:49
Will — good obswervation
Cttnwds Exprs - David Stein
02:25:56
The Cottonwoods Express current proposal is ~15 stops in LCC. All trailheads and several at both Snowbird and Alta.
Ralph Becker, CWC
02:26:24
Not sure the point here, Will. I think we were trying to focus on Canyons mouths with prior elements of the SL Valley consideration. We have received a lot of suggestions that Valley transit support is important so we're exploring that as part of the MTS>
Mike Marker-LCC res
02:26:24
Why not have some express routes from several distant starting points?
Blake Perez CWC
02:26:40
Mike we just discussed that
Carl Fisher, Save Our Canyons
02:27:08
Yeah, Mike that was the last one
P Shea Future Generations
02:30:01
For future Zoom conferences, like this Summit, it would be more efficient if the questions were sent out before the meeting, so the questions with their answers could provide more focused discussion. And, at the end another set of questions would be asked to see if there were conversions or changes of mind.
Julianna Christie, 2nd monitor
02:30:28
Comments re: enhanced curent transit...
Rachel Ridge
02:30:46
In favor - allows for more versatility and access to a wider audience, especially during a future Winter Olympics
Carolyn Keigley, Brighton town council
02:31:39
Salt Lake valley comments - Yes if some express routes from several distant starting points are put into place
Jenny Wilson
02:32:14
I suggest we keep moving until 5pm w/ no break. I and several from county staff have a hard stop at 5.
Steve Van Maren-Sandy Resident
02:32:18
1e: In favor: more frequent service is always beneficial; not so sure it will benefit skiers that much.
Carl Fisher, Save Our Canyons
02:33:15
Does status quo mean we are freezing population growth too?
Megan Anderson
02:33:40
I would vote for the no action option for the simple reason that I feel this process is being rushed and that the main focus is on transportation not preservation.
Julianna Christie, 2nd monitor
02:34:42
No action (SLValley connections)...
Carolyn Keigley, Brighton town council
02:34:44
No Action status quo - comment - We need to put more emphasis on avoiding over use of our recreational areas- such as a reservation system.
Ralph Becker, CWC
02:35:30
Points on over use well taken.
Laura Briefer
02:35:31
I agree Carolyn.
Ned Hacker-WFRC
02:35:57
Haven't we spent the past 30 years taking NO ACTION?
Carl Fisher, Save Our Canyons
02:36:34
I think our action has been avoidance, discord and heads in the sand.
MARK WALTON
02:36:44
“A Bio Break” - very diplomatic. :D
Chris McCandless - CW Management Corp
02:38:49
If covid has shown us anything, its a glimpse of what's coming as it relates to population increase. No action will result in the total destruction of our quality of life's enjoyment of precious natural resources and our present inability to make decisions to protect what's important to all citizens, stakeholders and future residents of our area.
Aaron London (WBA)
02:39:12
musical interlude
Barbara Cameron-Big Cottonwood Community Council
02:39:30
More John!!
Ralph Becker, CWC
02:40:22
Hopefully at the end of this MTS effort we will have enough direction to move forward with meaningful improvements. For 30 years, action has been limited while the problems have worsened.
Ralph Becker, CWC
02:41:25
A glimpse of the future? (and now w/ COVID) The Forest Service and UDOT numbers are that this summer BCC use increased by 250% year to year (from 2019) on a peak day.
Laura Briefer
02:41:54
Thanks John Knoblock.
Caroline Rodriguez
02:42:04
new poll option: live blue grass on all transit
Caroline Rodriguez
02:42:10
i vote yes
Aaron London (WBA)
02:42:27
partnership with KRCL's Bluegrass Express 😉
Ed Marshall
02:42:54
Lindsey, would you please promote me for the Millcreek Canyon portion of the meeting
Carolyn Keigley, Brighton town council
02:48:34
Costs should be to the Wasatch Back since they will receive the benefits. Am I right or not?
Blake Perez CWC
02:48:58
Wouldn't it work both ways Carolyn?
Caroline Rodriguez
02:49:07
Riders go both ways
Carolyn Keigley, Brighton town council
02:49:25
Thank you for that clarification
Carl Fisher, Save Our Canyons
02:49:29
I think there are benefits to everyone particularly if you had an Cottonwood interchange around the mouth of parleys
Julianna Christie, 2nd monitor
02:49:40
Comments here post poll on: Wasatch front/back/I-80: improve frequency of SLC - PC Connect…
Steve Van Maren-Sandy Resident
02:50:27
These are hard to analize with out comparitive costs.
Carl Fisher, Save Our Canyons
02:50:29
IT would be nice to have a transfer point around Wasatch foothill for cottonwood visitors
Cttnwds Exprs - David Stein
02:50:40
Of course I'm in favor of the Cottonwoods Express delivering people to Park City in an estimated 16 minutes from SLC and tying into UTA mass transit or Tesla Network vehicles in the PC area.
P Shea Future Generations
02:50:53
Capital and operational costs and who pays.
William McCarvill
02:51:08
Would buses pick up and drop people at hotels?
William McCarvill
02:52:23
The busses from Vancouver to Whistler Blackcomb do that
Carl Fisher, Save Our Canyons
02:52:39
Way to get er done PC/Summit!
John Knoblock
02:52:40
Yes, easy to say 'yes' but it always comes down to funding.
Carl Fisher, Save Our Canyons
02:54:28
Blake, similar comments to before.. is this non stop or will a cottonwood transfer be part of it
Andy Beerman -- CWC -- Park City
02:54:54
Regarding the question: who pays for it. The current program is a partnership between UTA, Summit County, and Park City. Riders pay a fee and SC & PC subsidize.
P Shea Future Generations
02:55:04
Present private system excludes most low to middle income people.
Carl Fisher, Save Our Canyons
02:55:17
Sounds like a con might be a law change.
Carl Fisher, Save Our Canyons
02:56:09
Or I guess it could be a pro!
Caroline Rodriguez
02:56:17
i
Cttnwds Exprs - David Stein
02:56:31
Especially for resort employee use.
Caroline Rodriguez
02:56:46
I would question that low income persons are riding from the airport
Laura Briefer
02:56:46
Pat Shea - thank you for raising the equity issue. Important for our residents.
Cttnwds Exprs - David Stein
02:56:48
Extra cost is a real negative for them.
P Shea Future Generations
02:57:49
Who or what is dong the current aerial system study?
Christopher Robinson, CWC Chair
02:58:11
What is meant by Aerial System?
P Shea Future Generations
02:58:50
Is it being paid for by Park City, or a private party?
UTA-Carlton Christensen
02:58:51
I think Summit County has also approve the fifth/fifth transit tax, which I am guessing is helping them.
Christopher Robinson, CWC Chair
02:59:43
Yes, Summit County has approved the 4th and 5th quarters!
Andy Beerman -- CWC -- Park City
03:00:06
Pat, Any Aerial system would likely be a public-private partnership.
Carl Fisher, Save Our Canyons
03:00:14
BRAVO!
P Shea Future Generations
03:00:31
Are the private parties identified now.
John Knoblock
03:03:06
Thanks to Mayor Wilson on getting the funding for the widened Millcreek Cyn shoulder that was done a couple of years ago!!!
Andy Beerman -- CWC -- Park City
03:03:13
Pat, It's very conceptual, but there is interest by Both resorts--DV and PC--are planning new base developments and have any interest in aerial connections. It's still very conceptual.
Carolyn Keigley, Brighton town council
03:03:36
Millcreek is a good example of what we should do for our other canyons for summer usage.
Carl Fisher, Save Our Canyons
03:05:37
Clarification: policy changes would be needed to have transit/shuttle service to trailheads, as I understand so that should be captured
Laura Briefer
03:05:38
Would a shuttle help with pedestrian/bicycle safety?
Carl Fisher, Save Our Canyons
03:06:15
This relates to visitor management/capacity issues.
P Shea Future Generations
03:06:31
Mayor Beerman, Thank you for your answer on the private parties. Pat
John Knoblock
03:06:36
If I'm not mistaken, the FLAP grant $ won't be available for several years if we even get it, and then the USFS has to do a NEPA review and infrastructure improvements before they would allow a shuttle in Millcreek Cyn.
Jeff Silvestrini
03:08:05
John is correct about FLAP timing and theFS process.
Ralph Becker, CWC
03:08:10
I think FLAP grant final approval is now scheduled for next Spring (2021). That could lead to improvements preceding shuttle development. (Info from FS yesterday.)
Carl Fisher, Save Our Canyons
03:08:38
Important distinction between adding capacity vs changing behaviors, Laura. Thanks!
P Shea Future Generations
03:09:15
Looking at the future, that is, five years out, I think we will have individual programable vehicles which would allow to have less congestion. Let's not base a decision today that doesn't anticipate future technological developments.
Laura Briefer
03:09:53
Thank you for clarifying intent about incentivizing transit.
Lisa Bagley
03:09:53
Mill Creek has a fee booth.
Steve Van Maren-Sandy Resident
03:09:54
Like on he freeways, if traffic (auto) drops too low, the cars tend to speed up, reducing bucycle/pedestrian safety.
Laura Hanson, UTA
03:12:32
Great facilitation Julianna!
Lisa Bagley
03:12:43
Thank you for a productive afternoon! I will not be able to join you tomorrow. My opinion for LCC is gondola!. Having lived in Switzerland, perfect model to follow! Gondola’s and Snowsheds!
Dan Knopp mayor brighton
03:12:43
I would add dirtiest option for the environment to no action
Carl Fisher, Save Our Canyons
03:13:28
There’s a lot of respect for everyone here. We’ll continue to chip away at the agreement and alignment part.
Jeff Silvestrini
03:13:44
👍👍👍
P Shea Future Generations
03:13:48
Have we asked all of the Commisioners and staff to forgo any future personal involvement in any of of the transporation options.?
Dave Fields - Snowbird
03:13:49
Good point Mayor Dan.
Laura Briefer
03:14:03
This was really great. Thank you CWC and everyone here.