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Focused Intervention Team - Community Oversight Group (FIT/COG) - Shared screen with speaker view
Community Safety Division
36:03
Agenda1. Brief Introductions…if necessary (Williams )2. Meeting Communication Protocols (Dixon)3. FIT Summary (Jackson/Townley/Duilio)4. ShotSpotter Technology Presentation/ Guided Q&A (Terri Greene/Ron Teachman/Williams)5. Public Comment (2 minute limit)6. Confidential Briefing (est. 6:15 pm)7. Meeting conclusion (7pm)
kimberely dixon
49:51
Welcome Emory and Chanel:-)
Chanel Thomas
51:20
Sorry for my tardiness, I am currently in a double homicide trial. Hello everyone!
Chanel Thomas
51:29
Thank you, Kim!
Jake Dockter
01:00:16
Today, Townley stated staffing is an issue and PPB has been sharing that narrative, stating police cannot respond quickly to emergencies. why now, with this tech, will PPB be able to respond faster?
kimberely dixon
01:02:34
Technology will help to provide more precise location for officers to go to and also will report on firings that haven’t been called in through 911
Jake Dockter
01:05:44
Paul, can you provide citations for studies and references you include here?
Chanel Thomas
01:06:29
@kim agreed.
Chris
01:09:25
Who owns the data collected by ShotSpotter sensors?
Paul S. John
01:09:29
I can do that, Jake.
Jake Dockter
01:10:03
Thanks
Terri Greene, ShotSpotter
01:15:48
An example of what Ron stated about guns being "test fired":
Terri Greene, ShotSpotter
01:15:52
https://www.mlive.com/news/2021/03/detroits-shotspotter-system-leads-to-gun-manufacturing-bust-in-first-week-of-operation.html
Je (she/they)
01:17:38
the negative perception of police comes from interactions with the police themselves, not the lack thereof
Je (she/they)
01:26:16
here is the article: https://turnto10.com/i-team/on-your-dime/on-your-dime-new-bedfords-157000-gunshot-detection-system-rarely-leads-to-crime-scenes
Je (she/they)
01:27:49
can you link to that report?
Terri Greene, ShotSpotter
01:28:31
https://edgeworthanalytics.com/independent-audit-of-the-shotspotter-accuracy/
Je (she/they)
01:28:47
is this report peer reviewed?
Gina Ronning
01:30:59
There are several scientific studies done on the efficacy of audio gun violence detection technologies. When researching these studies it is helpful to search for them as ‘gunfire detection' technologies, not ShotSpotter who is but one company among several that use and sell this technology.
Victor
01:33:38
in other words, 87 percent of calls did not result in positive result. We in Portland are short of police manpower already, do we have police to spend un necessary time to chase down your report?
Gina Ronning
01:37:14
For those interested in researching more on this with peer reviewed studies please see some of the following scientific journals:
Gina Ronning
01:38:17
International Journal of Policing, Justice Evaluation, Journal of Audio Engineering Technology, Justice Quarterly, International Journal of Geo Information,
Victor
01:39:27
if police does not even considers it a incident worth writing a report,, why waste our police time to respond to your call?chase down
Chris
01:41:03
https://www.policechiefmagazine.org/the-hidden-costs-of-police-technology/
Je (she/they)
01:41:35
The studies I've seen have shown that more police interactions/proactive policing corresponds to psychological distress and negative social outcomes for Black and Latino youth. You implied police coming to "high risk (typically Black/brown) neighborhoods is an inherent good. Can you justify that with data?
Je (she/they)
01:42:08
Here's one such study: https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1808976116
Loveisstronginc.com Lionel
01:43:15
Having connection issues
Chris
01:43:16
Thanks
Terri Greene, ShotSpotter
01:51:03
NYU Policing Project Audit https://www.policingproject.org/shotspotter
Je (she/they)
01:51:13
Given PPB's history of racial disparities, showing up does not change the narrative, it just reinforces the narrative that certain communities are overpoliced https://www.opb.org/article/2021/02/07/portland-has-5th-worst-arrest-disparities-in-the-nation-according-to-data/
Je (she/they)
01:52:03
This NYU Policing project? https://docs.google.com/document/d/1qHWVP2gPqirTFQDXhd4schKiJU9EAYiKsQqOkmC1Vns/edit
Je (she/they)
01:53:08
"Policing Project is funded and guided by police agencies along with for-profit businesses that sell new technologies to police.” (eg Shotspotter)
Gina Ronning
01:53:16
In research conducted by the National Institute of Justice, it was found that perceptions or attitudes towards police and policing (levels of trust and mistrust) are directly linked to degrees of real or perceived crime occurring in neighborhoods. Including communities of color. When the research controlled for this factor, neighborhood crime was the most salient factor in shaping policing perceptions. Read more here: https://nij.ojp.gov/topics/articles/race-trust-and-police-legitimacy
Je (she/they)
01:59:37
Thanks for the link. The first sentence of the article is interesting. “Research consistently shows that minorities are more likely than whites to view law enforcement with suspicion and distrust. Minorities frequently report that the police disproportionately single them out because of their race or ethnicity."
Je (she/they)
02:00:14
Also “Racial and ethnic minority perceptions that the police lack lawfulness and legitimacy, based largely on their interactions with the police, can lead to distrust of the police." exactly my point interactions with police create distrust, not trust within the community. People don't like to be overpoliced.
Nathan Castle
02:02:06
As a member of the public, I'm concerned with the licensing model, specifically charging by covered area. It has been stated in chat that ”high risk" neighborhoods are "typically black/brown". If Portland primarily deploys shotspotter to minority neighborhoods, rightly or wrongly Portland will be seen as unfairly targeting minority neighborhoods. For the sake of equity, are there cities that have 100% coverage rather than reserving for high-risk districts? Would ShotSpotter be open to negotiating/updating the licensing model to make 100% coverage for Portland feasible/pass cost-benefit analysis?
Pastor Ed Williams
02:03:12
What does KPI stand for?
Je (she/they)
02:03:29
Key performance indicator
Terri Greene, ShotSpotter
02:03:43
I posted this above - the article Ron is referencing: https://www.mlive.com/news/2021/03/detroits-shotspotter-system-leads-to-gun-manufacturing-bust-in-first-week-of-operation.html
Pastor Ed Williams
02:03:44
Thanks
Gina Ronning
02:04:40
On the topic of community engaged policing.... policing encounters within communities of color can be problematic when important organizational changes within departments have not occurred. The science behind impact is not as simple as increasing police encounters creates more harm. Increasing encounters without organizational change is harmful, and that is what we see in the majority of the articles and studies conducted this topic. After doing my own research as a member of this group I have come to the following two conclusions: 1.) data driven approaches including the use of gunfire detection technologies helps to eliminate random stops, searches, and encounters. If the goal is to limit random stops (which is what the police will use if given no other approach) than data driven policing is a meaningful step in policing reform. 2.) Community engaged policing done with appropriate and needed organizational changes explicitly addressing issues pertaining to racialized policing is a necessary component
Gina Ronning
02:05:00
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0047235220302245
Je (she/they)
02:10:13
Chicago Office of the Inspector General (OIG) created a report finding patterns of CPD officers detaining and frisking civilians based on Shotspotter alerts. Is this reducing or contributing to random stops?
Je (she/they)
02:10:24
https://igchicago.org/2021/08/24/oig-finds-that-shotspotter-alerts-rarely-lead-to-evidence-of-a-gun-related-crime-and-that-presence-of-the-technology-changes-police-behavior/
Victor
02:14:58
Of the 20000 cities US have, there are only 130 cities using your system, do you have any idea why the majority are not using your system? Also, I am sure there are cities terminated your service, why do they choose not to continue using your service?
Nathan Castle
02:17:21
(Feedback to ShotSpotter, does not need to be addressed now: From a resource perspective, targeting the system makes sense, but from an equity/PR perspective, it is challenging, and I think drives some of the problematic narrative around the tech. The SW hills may never get a shooting, but if NE Portland is under ShotSpotter and SW isn't, that is going to _look_ problematic and generate pushback. I'd hate to see the proposal scrapped over equity concerns that might be addressable through pricing structure tweaks.)
Terri Greene, ShotSpotter
02:18:14
Cooper Health Study / ShotSpotter (faster response) https://blogs.cooperhealth.org/news/2019/01/cooper-trauma-team-saving-more-lives-working-in-collaboration-with-police-and-shotspotter-technology/
Gina Ronning
02:19:20
Based on the research we explored, we found that policing agencies who violate constitutional rights and engage in consistent racialized policing behave that way whether the technology is in place or not. The technology by itself does not increase racialized policing, this has to do with the patterns, attitudes and values of individual police departments. To gauge whether or not these concerns are relevant to Portland we will need to integrate what we know about our own police rather than universalizing all departments across the country. It is important to examine this topic on a case by case basis, and this is discussed in the conditions section of the recommendation.
Je (she/they)
02:21:18
we know at least one current member of ppb is part of a white supremacist militia: https://www.opb.org/article/2022/07/14/portland-police-investigation-clears-officer-who-joined-oath-keepers-militia/
Je (she/they)
02:21:55
we know that white supremacist militia (Proudboy) memes have been used in trainings for how to respond to racial justice protests
Je (she/they)
02:22:40
and the 5th worst in racial disparities in the country: https://www.opb.org/article/2021/02/07/portland-has-5th-worst-arrest-disparities-in-the-nation-according-to-data/
Nathan Castle
02:22:51
Some existing City of Portland violence prevention efforts: https://www.portland.gov/oyvp/programs-services Community-based violence prevention has received a lot of recent investment, but results are clearly mixed. https://www.opb.org/article/2021/04/07/gun-reform-portland-oregon-city-council/
Je (she/they)
02:24:33
so how does city assets going to Shotspotter instead of those communities help?
kimberely dixon
02:25:19
Je I would say that it is a yes and….there are assets going to both
Chris
02:26:15
But city budgets are limited, so it seems like the trade-off would likely be funding community or ShotSpotter
Je (she/they)
02:26:29
right it's not like there's unlimited resources
kimberely dixon
02:27:36
From the federal level down to the states there has been an increase intentionality of funding regarding gun/community violence reduction
Je (she/they)
02:27:44
we're in a housing/inflation crisis with rampant housing/food insecurity, among other class issues and it's all directly related to violence. A $2 mill shotspotter contract could be $2 mill more for housing desperately needed.
kimberely dixon
02:29:04
Significant funding is being deployed, while not completely sufficient, towards houselessness.
Terri Greene, ShotSpotter
02:30:34
https://costofviolence.org/
Terri Greene, ShotSpotter
02:31:20
https://everytownresearch.org/report/the-economic-cost-of-gun-violence/
Nathan Castle
02:32:11
The economics as driver of violence doesn't make sense, since similar cities to Portland (San Francisco, Seattle) aren't seeing anywhere near the scale of problem we are. Portland does not have a problem of underinvestment in community-based violence prevention and doesn't have a problem of underinvestment in homelessness. Housing cost/development is obviously a serious supply problem, but that is a policy problem that won't be solved by spending money. San Francisco and Seattle have far fewer murders than Portland; neither are known for housing affordability.
Evan Watson
02:33:43
Pastor Williams - before closing, will you please provide an update on where a potential FITCOG recommendation of ShotSpotter to the Mayor's office stands currently.
kimberely dixon
02:34:08
To your point Nathan the city has just made another investment into community, $2.4 mil for the Safer Summer PDX launch.
Chris
02:34:26
I'm not questioning whether that's being done now, but once that infrastructure of microphones is placed around a city, what's to stop a future administration from requesting voice recordings?
Chanel Thomas
02:37:00
Thank you everyone!
Stephanie Howard
02:37:12
Thank you, all!