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APPD Fellowship Recruitment Virtual Cafe - Shared screen with speaker view
Hayley Gans
32:20
Hello everyone, please let us know what is on your mind, post questions here!
JUDITH CAMPBELL
35:17
Please address in person vs. virtual interviews. This is especially important for fellowship programs where there are 2 positions for every applicant and only ~50% of slots are filled.
Denise Alton
35:47
Does this allow IM and Peds residents to couples match into fellowship?
mackenzie frost
36:15
Do we know what day we will be able to access ERAS applications?
Hayley Gans
36:17
Thanks Judith, I sympathize obviously, we will provide some info on this
Nicole Paradise Black
36:23
7/21
mackenzie frost
36:44
Nicole, you’re my hero.
Su-Ting Li
36:45
Is that earlier than previously?
Valerie Cole
37:11
7/20/2022
Nicole Paradise Black
37:13
2 weeks between submission and being able to open apps
Melissa Bales
37:17
Previously was always the 15th of July other than last year when they granted a delay
Maggie Paik
37:23
July 21 is a Thursday?
Valerie Cole
37:38
It's the 20th in 2022 - ERAS still has 2021 dates up
Nicole Paradise Black
37:39
Maggie- sorry I was wrong, it is 7/20
Becky Blankenburg (she/her)
37:47
Thanks all!
Melissa Bales
37:51
Just checked - it is the 20th of July
Joanna Lewis
38:45
For how long will you still be enrolling programs in the stud?
Jennifer Kesselheim
38:54
We are still enrolling!
Bridget Voigt
39:01
when are their apps due (aka when are all of my LOR due??!)
Allison Reinhardt
39:48
Can you send the link to enroll in the study please?
Becky Blankenburg (she/her)
40:23
Wednesday, July 6 - Fellowship ERAS apps due/LOR due
Jennifer Kesselheim
40:43
If your core program is participating and you want your program to be included as well, the best entry is to email LEARN@appd.org
Debra Boyer
41:23
if your residency is not yet enrolled, they can also email to join!!! Please do
Jessica Darling
43:20
I'm concerned about how equitable the interview process will be if there is a mix of virtual, in-person, hybrid interview options, especially in light of the large amount of money it costs applicants to travel around the country.
Ashley Siems (JHACH PCCM PD)
45:16
I agree that finding equity with a hybrid approach is going to be a challenge but I also worry that a remote only approach puts smaller programs at a disadvantage. I think "big name" programs will always be able to draw top applicants but missing out on the intangibles of an in person visit means that the draws of the smaller programs are harder to highlight.
Arwa Nada
47:28
Agree with Ashley. Virtual does not help smaller programs
Winston Huh
47:58
Shorter interview days/times allowed us to encourage use of structured questions which had benefits for addressing equity and decreasing implicit bias - less time for small talk.
Deb Palazzi
48:31
Another aspect of what Ashley mentions is that even some big name programs are at a disadvantage depending on their geographic location. We are in TX and our post match survey of those who did not choose us always mentions location as a reason. So we worry that applicants who have never been to Texas are very unlikely to choose our program without visiting. It is hard to imagine the city of Houston or the medical center without seeing it. We do videos, but it is not the same and our survey supports this.
JUDITH CAMPBELL
51:38
What subspecialties were represented in the fellows that participated in the focus groups
Joanna Lewis
51:41
did anyone look at days away from training programs for both models?
Su-Ting Li
52:00
that seems really compressed for fellowships
Su-Ting Li
52:20
how many more programs did applicants apply to?
Ashley Siems (JHACH PCCM PD)
52:57
Have we considered allowing second looks in person but having an "honor" agreement that applicants should go to no more than three programs (or some pre-set limit)?
Becky Blankenburg (she/her)
53:03
Cards, PICU
Adit Tal
53:56
We had hoped that our fellows could give a tour of the hospital and clinics without meeting any faculty or the PD, and we would not know which applicants came to visit and which didn't so it would not be biased, but this was prior to Omicron so it never happened.
Hayley Gans
54:02
PEM, PHM also
Ashley Siems (JHACH PCCM PD)
54:04
I think this would allow people who enjoyed programs that were initially "lower" on their list for whatever reason (smaller, location) to visit places that surpassed their expectations during the virtual interview
Su-Ting Li
54:41
our residents definitely applied to more programs than previously
Elizabeth Bonachea
55:01
I agree that hybrid in the sense of offering either option as equivalent is unlikely to promote equity- those candidates from historically marginalized backgrounds may be most likely to feel obligated to come in person and least financially able to do so
Mark Ward
55:24
If require rank list submission for programs in advance of applicants (?2-3 weeks), applicants could then be permitted to visit after the program rank list deadline, without concern that not doing so would jeopardize their ranking.
Su-Ting Li
55:36
Were they more likely to go to local programs or larger name programs?
Becky Blankenburg (she/her)
55:41
@Elizabeth, we agree -- that is what we have heard from the fellows -- anything "optional" felt required
Joanna Lewis
55:51
The hybrid approach also puts a burden on those applicants who come from programs that don't have fellowships and gives even more of an advantage to those residents with "home programs"
Winston Huh
56:23
Are you also collecting data on geographic breakdown? For example, East coast based residents applying to more West coast programs than before?
Joanna Lewis
57:19
@Su-Ting, I was wondering the same thing
Hayley Gans
57:21
We are trying to collect info on geography, the applicants told us they did reach more geographically for the virtual group but not the in-person group
Ashley Siems (JHACH PCCM PD)
57:47
Previously, second looks were "optional" - do we have data on how many second looks occurred?
Becky Blankenburg (she/her)
57:47
@Mark, we are aiming to do that for residencies this coming year....programs put in rank beg of Feb, applicants put in rank beg of March
Elizabeth Bonachea
57:48
I agree with Marks position, thought it will be tighter for fellowship. I think it is still doable for us to interview in only sept and oct
Nicole Paradise Black
57:48
To provide another perspective and this is for my categorical program (not fellowships), but in the past two years we have matched candidates from more geographically diverse areas. For my program in a less known and smaller city, virtual could have helped us. I think Gainesville is wonderful, but the younger folks may not think because it is smaller.
Debra Boyer
58:07
yes Winston we are trying to collevct that data
Winston Huh
58:55
Thank you. Also, are you collecting info if programs use social media apps to provide info on their city/institution?
Deb Palazzi
58:57
We also need to think about how the interview decision impacts subspecialties that easily fill vs those that don't. I'm sure you are doing this :)
Debra Boyer
59:42
winston we are trying to see in our survey study whether applicants used social media apps
Hayley Gans
01:00:16
Did those leaders in "small" programs on this session see a drop in applicants, did you have issues with matching that felt different?
Debra Boyer
01:00:18
Ashley in our survey we are asking about whether they did second looks
Hayley Gans
01:01:22
We are interested in the differences between under and over subscribed subspecialties.
Joanna Lewis
01:06:28
Of these that I have done in the past, the phone calls are the best and feels less informal while still being helpful
Becky Blankenburg (she/her)
01:07:29
Are there additional things we should be focusing on that would improve the process?
Elizabeth Bonachea
01:08:26
Calls or virtual meeting would be really helpful for handoff
Becky Blankenburg (she/her)
01:09:42
@Arwa, thank you! Wonder if signals might be helpful in that case so you know who is committed to interview.
Katherine Mason
01:09:55
What do people feel about best way of involving the resident to fellow candidate in the warm handoff?
Jennifer Kesselheim
01:10:57
I agree the incoming fellow perspective would help so we can determine their degree of insight into the areas for improvement.
Arwa Nada
01:11:47
@Becky: it would really be great to know that because it’s really a lot of effort!
Rupali Gandhi, Advocate Children's Cardiology
01:11:58
I love the idea of the incoming fellow leading the discussion - much parent-teacher conference that is "run" by my 6th grader - where he highlights his own strengths and weaknesses.
Jennifer Barker
01:13:08
What about having the idea of having the resident leading the conversation based on a list of criteria: Residency experience , strengths, areas of challenge.
Joanna Lewis
01:13:52
Since they should also know that we share milestones from residency to fellowship, we could always use this framework for the discussion as well
Rupali Gandhi, Advocate Children's Cardiology
01:13:55
Yes, he has to make a powerpoint in advance that answers specific questions (6th grade conference). Sorry i don't have webcam that works on this computer!
Joanna Lewis
01:14:43
Any thoughts about timing of fellowship interviews?
Elizabeth Bonachea
01:14:51
Late May feels really tight
Elizabeth Bonachea
01:15:20
Sorry that was in regards to a recommendation re virtual
Becky Blankenburg (she/her)
01:15:21
Thanks! Sounding like moving up the decision timepoint for this coming year would be helpful
Bridget Voigt
01:16:37
I think the resident's advisor in the specialty they are going into could be a part of the warm handoff potentially in place of the PD
Elizabeth Bonachea
01:17:03
I think programs can pivot reasonably fast but the candidates may need more lead time (ex may need to take out more loans sadly)
Jennifer Maniscalco
01:19:11
Thank you all for your work on these important issues!
Becky Blankenburg (she/her)
01:19:30
So appreciative for all of you! And please keep giving us feedback! Becky - rblanke@stanford.edu
Joanna Lewis
01:19:32
this is great work. thank you!!
Melissa Bales
01:19:46
Melissa BAles - melbales@iu.edu
Arwa Nada
01:19:48
Thank you very much
Katherine Mason
01:20:41
Kathy Mason: katherine_mason1@Brown.edu
Deann Ramirez
01:20:41
Thank You!
Bridget Voigt
01:20:51
thank you!
Mary McBride
01:20:56
Thank you!
Linda Waggoner-Fountain
01:21:05
I think we also need to see how the fellows who have been recruited virtually 'do' or 'succeed' during their fellowship
Nicole Paradise Black
01:21:08
thank you!