Jenny is not in the frame

Can we see her?

in my frame

WW Phelps wrote this hymn.

It seems like every woman I talk to in private is struggling, and we hardly ever share those voices publicly.

Men tend to drown out, or ignore women in mixed gatherings, especially if women are in the minority.

In society generally, men struggle to define their role. In the church, most males don't understand how the priesthood makes them better disciples of Christ, so that they can temper the more aggressive aspects of their nature. In religion generally, women tend to be the leaders in compassionate service, which most men don't seem to understand. If women assumed the temporal duties of p.h. holders, I'm afraid men would stop doing as little as they are doing now.

It is like the earlier part of the feminist movement of the 70s. Women were told they could have it all. Career, home, kids. Men have gradually stepped up more at home, but too many women found themselves burned out with no support at home, basically still working four jobs.

But why do we holdWomen back because the men aren’t as devoted or “naturally compassionate?” Will men only participate if they can be in charge? How does that increase compassion? Why can’t both genders share the power equally?

It’s actually ONE step forward TWO steps back.

I am suggesting that many men won't step up because it is too easy to abdicate their responsibilities if they assume their wife, or mother, or another woman will do it instead. I have heard a lot of men put their wife on a pedestal, as if it is her responsibility to get them to heaven.

If you have any questions, type them here.

Yes Zoom user! We’re not asking to be in charge of everything. We just want an equal footing. We just want to be in rooms where decisions are made. Men would still get leadership callings too. It would be beautiful to see men and women working together in leadership to bless the lives of wards and stakes and the whole church.

A convert roommate seems to talk to our bishop about everything as if he needs validation. I think he grew up in a culture where the pastor or priest fulfilled that function. Being responsible for one's own spiritual progress is still novel for people. Perhaps the issue is for all to pull their own weight. There is too much passing the buck.

As with minorities, if you protest too much, people will think you are uppity. Yet if you don't make a scene, you will be ignored.

Can't hear the question.

On the other hand, most men have blessed and passed the sacrament, had their names read for priesthood ordinations, blessed their own children.

Tone is also the excuse that Bountiful Children’s Foundation hears back about why the church has taken so long to respond to our malnourished infants and nursing mothers. Using tone as an excuse is unacceptable, but unfortunately it is a real issue.

I

Going farther back, it was more common for people to call upon a church leader to perform such ordinances, as it is today in less active families.

Can the people in the room be heard?

I can hear them!

mostly

Women are second class citizens throughout the world. I agree that we have to have our voices and they don’t HAVE to be gentle. People can be afraid of us and maybe then they’ll listen

I know you said we are in the cheap seats, but would it ever be possible to talk with the prophet?

AMEN to everything Susan just said!

As Laurel Ulrich said, well-behaved women seldom make history.

Our young men don't want it either. They don't want to be part of a misogynistic church. I have 5 sons. The 3 who are adults have rejected it.

It feels like if the leaders of the church really listen to the voices of the members and actually make changes because of that, that somehow they are spiritually weak being swayed by the voices of the “world” if it didn’t come straight from God first. It feels we are so powerless to effect change. Are we not all the body of Christ and working as Christ’s “hands”?

“I am going to start showing up WHOLE.” 🙏

Stay and give support to those who are speaking up for themselves. Lovely and true.

Amen

I heard in stake conference that a longitudinal study is being done on youth 13-23. Most do not believe they have had a spiritual experience in their life, because they think it needs to be of biblical proportions. I wonder how much is being shaped by the politicization of religion, and the strong identification with conservative politics, which seems mainly reactionary and frankly bigoted. Children want to feel a part of something that is moving forward, or at least stirring things up. Instead, they are being encouraged to disdain others. If they aren't being spiritually fed, consumer electronics, gamer culture, fantasy, sensuality are strongly attractive alternatives.

People need to do their homework outside of church. They can't come to church just expecting to be spoon fed, like my roommate by his pastor.

💕👏🏻

Thank you! Wonderful conversation!

Thank you SO much! Best way to spend a Friday evening. :-)

Thank you everyone for a wonderful evening and discussion!

I apologize for pontificating. I see it not just as a problem of validating women, but as also a problem of people not realizing that the church is for every person to participate in working out their individual salvation. There is too much focus on institutional preservation and just getting things done, as an impatient parent who passes on a teaching moment with a child who wants to help.

Thank you, Susan and Cynthia! This has been a lovely discussion.

Thank you ❤️