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The College of the Future English-specific final report launch - Shared screen with speaker view
Nick Linford
24:46
agree
Nick Linford
24:59
competition means more choice for learners
Norman Crowther
26:48
Not according to the report. See page 31.
Fabienne Bailey
27:02
Agree - there is fantastic Access to HE provision in colleges allowing young people and adults to progress to HE
Nick Linford
27:26
sure - report authors want a planned system. Willets right to question if that is best
Gordon Marsden
28:42
from GORDON Marsden - key to HE in FE is its proper recognition across Govt and progression - still a ways to go
Nick Linford
28:50
planned systems both slow to respond to rapidly changing events - and risk creating collusion and monopolies. not for in a market
Nick Linford
28:54
*good
Norman Crowther
29:26
If you question the evidence Nick, please supply some counter evidence or argument. The Area Based Reviews themselves were premised on ‘the end of the experiment of incorporation’. The financial state of the sector suggests otherwise.
David Hughes
30:00
Apologies - my broadband crashed!
Nick Linford
30:26
could point you to Competition and Markets Agency for evidence
Ed Roddis
31:01
What needs to change in the wider eco-system to align further education with local business need and local economic priorities?
Sean Mackney
31:01
Strategy and competition can go hand in hand: Regionally planned approaches can bring stability, reduce bureaucracy and transaction costs and coordinate responses; at the same time competition, between those regional partners, can stimulate innovation and variety to meet the different needs and demands of learners and employers.
Nick Linford
31:08
consumer would lose out in a managed market for colleges
Paul Harrison
31:09
Good afternoon from Portsmouth
Norman Crowther
32:22
Consumer, there you go
Brigitte Heller
32:36
Hi from Leicester College Brigitte Heller
Nick Linford
33:22
oh dear. says a lot if learners aren’t considered consumers. what happened to “learner voice”?
Mark O'Reilly
35:02
Hi folks. Great report which sets out some much needed systemic change.
Nick Linford
36:24
I’m fascinated by idea of college governor “dual mandate”. Would that be legal?
Norman Crowther
36:59
And there’s me thinking you were going to say consumer satisfaction survey! (sorry for the side show). Let’s leave the difference there.
Mark O'Reilly
37:35
The report suggest 'greater collaboration' between colleges (particularly on a regional basis), which has already been touched on by panellists. What do panellists think greater collaboration might look like and how does that build on, and differ from, recommendations made in recent area reviews? What else needs to be done?
Nick Linford
38:28
It’s very different proposal from area reviews as it makes membership of the network mandatory
Nick Linford
38:55
and goes on to say the college must sign up to network strategy else they would not get funding
Nick Linford
39:43
so if solves problem for government of a college ignoring a merger recommendation
Nick Linford
40:28
very interesting proposal given coming from the college membership body - as many have pointed out on twitter
Gordon Marsden
40:39
from GORDON MARSDEN. Great to hear Nora Senior stressing huge challenge to retrain in Lifelong Learning and expand grants and loans for people to access across all ages - key given pandemic and part of what the Lifelong Learning Commission recommended last November.
Norman Crowther
40:42
Agreed. Area Based Reviews were a false start. This is the sort of work that needed doing first, hence it comes to a much more considered set of views.
Damian Riley
41:47
Could collaboration take different forms in different geographies, ie pooling of shared support services to enable efficiencies to be reinvested in front line provision?
Sean Mackney
42:16
There is a new paradigm on offer here. There are a lot of educational entrepreneurs in colleges who will ensure there is not a stalinist five year plan - agility and responsiveness is a key characteristic of the CotF. Protecting institutions that can meet the economic and societal needs of the country as anchor institutions while keeping incentives for innovation is sensible. These recognised colleges can be liberated from the crushing bureaucracy that must catch the fly-by-night barrow boy chancers. We should quantify the Economics of Trust - these proposals represent VFM for Treasury
Nick Linford
42:53
wave 3 clearly there to resolve disputes as not all colleges will agree to collaborate
Fabienne Bailey
43:10
Loans are already available to adults to participate in Access to Higher Education programmes in colleges, ITPs, LAs, they are written off in full when the student progresses to either a degree or a degree apprenticeship. Yet very little promotion or knowledge of this in the sector
Gordon Marsden
44:22
GORDON MARSDEn - Amanda Melton absolutely right about collaboration across local and regional areas . it s a horizontal coming to get her - not just vertical micromanagement from Govt
Norman Crowther
44:44
All of these changes are premised on workforce capacity and adequate institutional arrangements. Calls in the report for a 30k starting salary bringing the FE workforce into broad alignment with school teacher pay is crucial. As is trade union involvement in strategy. Well done!
Terry Smyth
45:31
Amanda’s description of a network structure sounds ok, but the report paints a more bureaucratic picture, threatening a new organisational layer, new posts, new funding mechanisms etc etc
Bob Harrison
47:37
The College of the future will require significant investment in digital infrastructure and workforce capacity and capability to support learning wherever it is needed not necessarily defined by physical spaces
rob Peutrell
47:58
I know its dull but teacher conditions - pay, agency, workload, acknowledgement as professionals - are fundamental to any serious discussion of future FE.
Bob Harrison
48:09
David Hughes credits The Learning Age twenty years old but even more relevant. Sponsored by DB and authored by @NorthernCollege Principal Bob Fryer
Terry Smyth
48:45
The idea of a ’10 year plan’ might be a hostage to fortune. I have yet to come across one that survived that long. Let’s bring the horizon forward.
Thomas Bewick
49:47
Got a lot of time for Ewart Keep. But I think his anti-competition, anti-market thesis in FE totally misguided. The challenge of the last 30 years is that proper markets have been hampered by central bureaucracy and control. That is the elephant in the room.
Jenny Sherrard
50:09
Absolutely right Rob (except the bit about it being dull!) - absolutely crucial that staff are a central consideration. Staff are the lifeblood of colleges and we need to be doing all we can to ensure they are well supported, properly remunerated and professionally recognised.
John Stone
50:22
“competing each other to death” ? where is the evidence that colleges are deliberately seeking to drive others out of business?
Bob Harrison
51:34
The IFS report is crystal clear that the sector has been defunded,depleted and demor
Bob Harrison
52:49
demoralised for last ten years..we need a massive boost to correct that not just a movement of the policy players
Damian Riley
53:17
What qualities/ capabilities do colleges most need from an active and supportive partner/ employer?
rob Peutrell
53:43
Can recall one college in Nottingham sending a van with recruitment posters to sit outside the other. Language of 'our competitor colleges' was commonplace. Competing to death? Maybe extreme but self-regarding?7
Bob Harrison
54:13
We need the College of the Future to prepare young people and adults for life and for making a living...it’s not either/or?
rob Peutrell
55:03
Not really dull, Jenny. But mostly gets lost in the aspirational talk of nets, collaboration, future proofing, innovation etc.
Mark Lawson
55:36
I am an external Governor and work for Lockheed Martin. I want a good relationship with the local college but I want them to be the expert in delivering education.
Bob Harrison
56:03
robpeutrell As a Principal in Nottingham at the time the total annual marketing budget for all six FE Colleges was over £2m
Norman Crowther
56:39
And how much went to Staff CPD Bob?
Bob Harrison
57:27
None!
Bob Harrison
58:38
Sorry Norman ...misunderstood ...none of marketing budget went on cpd but much less for cpd
Norman Crowther
01:00:07
My point exactly, Bob!
Bob Harrison
01:01:29
But “sense of place” has now to be viewed in the context of online,virtual and blended learning means “place” is not fixed?
Sean Mackney
01:02:21
History is the most common first degree of FTSE100 CEOs
Norman Crowther
01:03:19
Neat point, Bob.
Jill Westerman
01:03:28
I agree David W. But if you’re over 18 accessing a History A level is difficult and expensive
Kirk Hookham
01:03:32
Good question - how many on this event have a vocational qualification.....
Jenny Sherrard
01:04:16
Good point Bob. Colleges have always benefitted from being more community-focussed but that imperative needs to evolve. The other point around community is one about equality and diversity - both of staff and students - and what more we can do to make sure our colleges are reflective of the various communities they serve
rob Peutrell
01:04:22
How much CPD is 'helpful' now, Norman? Would suggest teachers have very little control over their own professional learning - ironically given the job - rather a diet of mandatory training and latest fads. Would have thought this was a fairly painless, rel low cost issue to address - but seems not to be so,
Terry Smyth
01:05:09
We have the chance in FE colleges to open students' eyes, while meeting their personal career needs. Good learning is goes deep and slow, and we need to recognise that every student is much more than the course they are studying, that as a college we appreciate that and are able to offer a rounded preparation for life and work. This may be a matter more of values than a formal curriculum, and it is only the college staff who can bring it to fruition - they are the principal carriers of our values.
rob Peutrell
01:06:07
Good point Jenny. Boards are rather Victorian - local great and good running colleges for the local communities. Class??
Norman Crowther
01:06:56
The CPD offer has to be completely overhauled. The report recognises that truth, but it’s not simple or obvious how that would be done. The view I think is for professionals to take ownership of that CPD offer (in collaboration with college of course). But professionals need to have a voice in their development and progressing their expertise.
Bob Harrison
01:07:31
crucial issue raised by David about diversity in governance and leadership
Norman Crowther
01:08:47
Staff governors conference on 4th December! See https://booking.etfoundation.co.uk/course/details/972
Bob Harrison
01:09:12
Career advice in schools is undermined by the vested interest of Heads to hang on to as many of the pupils as they can
Norman Crowther
01:10:32
There is no neo liberal or non coordinated market system of vocational education and training that works! You have to co-ordinate social actors to deliver such a broad strategy.
Bob Harrison
01:11:29
AoC David underscores the vital importance of robust and stable connectivity
rob Peutrell
01:12:09
Where do colleges want to be in 20 years time? Who is involved in deciding this? CEOs? Boards? Local Employers? What about staff??? Communities that use FE???
Paul Turner
01:12:31
We must remember there are also 2 key consultations currently live that may well reduce and/or open up different choices and types of qualifications available for young people and adults going forward from 2024. The need for collaboration and co-operation is paramount now to ensure a robust, effective and sustainable post 16 education and skills world. This is only the first step.
John Stone
01:12:36
Worst education crisis in our lifetime and Ofsted’s only possible contribution was to get out of the way. Perhaps this could be further explored so attention can be focussed on employers and communities
Jenny Sherrard
01:13:42
Thanks all - useful discussion
Ed Roddis
01:13:49
Great launch discussion