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Summer Assessment 2021 Consultation Webinar for vocational/technical qualifications (VTQs) - Shared screen with speaker view
Catherine Orridge
15:03
Hello from Newcastle!
Alison Chapman
15:03
Hi Alison from City College Plymouth, business lecturer
cheryl Thompson
15:05
Afternoon everyone
Angela Crabtree
15:16
HI all
Chris Sikorski
15:18
hi
Vicky Buckle
15:22
Hi
Sue Hopewell
15:27
Hello from Birmingham Metropolitan College
Alison Vine
15:31
Hi everyone
Charlotte Marriott
15:38
HI everyone!!
Holly Bembridge
15:38
Hello!
Jacqui Scottj
15:42
Hi
Bethany Hughes
16:06
Thanks for inviting me!
Michelle Young
16:12
Hello All!
Carol Layall
16:18
Hello everyone from Leeds City College!
Angela Fairchild
16:21
Hello everyone!
Kate Da Costa
16:23
Hi everyone!
Eddie Playfair (AoC)
16:31
Welcome everyone, I'll be monitoring the chat and collating questions for Cath. Please feel free to type your questions in chat as we go.
Randeep Sami
16:31
Hi all
Ashley Martin
16:38
Hi all
Andrew Mould
16:43
Good afternoon.
Zoe Gusterson
16:46
Hello everyone from City College Norwich
sue martin
16:47
Hi All from sunny Sheffield representing Selby College.
Sharon Barrowclift
16:50
Hello from South and City College Birmingham
Michael Tambling
16:53
Afternoon all, Michael from Hartpury College
Randeep Sami
17:08
Hello all from Solihull College
Sue Hannan - Furness College
17:18
Hi all from Furness College
Vicky Buckle
18:13
Hello from York College
sabahat waheed
18:19
Hi all
Diana Martin
18:45
Hello everyone from Dudley College
Rosalyn Stapleton
19:00
Hello from the College of West Anglia
Karen Owens
19:14
Hello from Fareham College :)
Karen Coombs
19:15
Hi all from Milton Keynes College
Jane Spencer
19:48
Hello from Bishop Burton College
Antoinette Pennington
20:11
Hello from Birmingham Metropolitan College
Pat Haines
20:38
Sorry, this is my first time on Zoom. I have no sound. I have tested speakers; all okay, but cannot find where to turn sound on.
michael blanning
22:24
can you turn up volume on your device itself?
Amanda Redman - AoC Events Team
22:49
Thank you Michael, Pat is now sorted
cheryl Thompson
24:50
Does this mean that paper based functional skills can continue after March for maths and English?
Charlotte Marriott
25:12
will we receive a copy of this presentation? Thanks
Eddie Playfair (AoC)
25:59
Yes, the slides and recording will be available to you.
sue martin
26:31
How are Access to HE learners to be considered?
Karen Coombs
26:42
FS - remote invigilation for these exams are not really helpful - you can only do one at a time - 1 invigilator per 1 student.
Jon Kerrigan
26:54
Will there be more parity across levels from different awarding orgs, as last year for example City & Guilds L1 Land based was CAG but ABC L1 Animal was adapted?
Karen Coombs
27:12
Also awarding bodies system for remote invigilation are not user friendly at all
bernadette turner
27:46
If T levels are equivalent qualifications to A levels why are we not taking the same adapted approach?
leanne macey-withey
28:11
There is a link to the QAA document on the bottom page 17 of consultation document
Antoinette Pennington
28:14
Talk of shorter mini assessments on Monday with Ascentis on Access to HE programmes
Kate Da Costa
28:48
Is there any indication of funding available to support approaches such as remote invigilation?
SARAH WILSON
29:33
Sorry can you clarify the position on FS as as a college we have suspended FS exams for Jan and Feb (paper based and online). Please can you clarify the position for these exams going forward, I was momentarily interrupted when Bethany was speaking before.
Angela Crabtree
29:35
Agree with John - parity is important. Very difficult to keep up with different AO requirements
Eddie Playfair (AoC)
29:40
Thank you Leanne for the link. Access to HE a matter for QAA and the Access Validating Agencies, which we are taking up with them. Thank you Leann
Jenny Craig
31:12
Essential to have consistency of approach from different AOs - some of the decisions were made very late and are difficult to keep a track of
Ashley Martin
31:14
What is the stance on professional qualifications such as the AAT please
Lynette Leith
31:27
For adult learners who are on a 2 year programme and will not be certificated this year will the process around exams this year apply to them, or, are they expected to sit the exams next year?
Antoinette Pennington
31:27
Can you explain on your slide regards Vocational yousaid "written assessment no longer viable from April onwards" what does this mean..
Sharon Barrowclift
32:15
We have some childcare students on courses with licence to practice who were delayed last year and may well end up being delayed again - this is horrendous for these learners
Karen Ferguson
32:55
Written assessments no longer viable from April - does this cover the Technical synoptic assessments that are in scope?
Antoinette Pennington
33:40
FS needs to be a mixed approach for some reote assessment, those who have only just started a course (delay) those finishing the course TAG?
Kate Coughlan
33:56
this suggests a split approach within the same year and how would it assure fairness and transparency
Jenny Craig
34:25
Not all AOs offer remote invigilation for FS
SARAH WILSON
34:31
I would have hoped that we mirrored the protocol last year for predicted grades re FS. We have cancelled our Jan, Feb windows not all learners have access to remote learning. Also components such as S&L are much harder to coordinate remotely. Much more difficult to capture that achievement online.
Alison Chapman
34:40
The focus on whether students can access exams on-site, dependent on safety measures available in College, does not cover the issues of students having to self-isolate and cannot attend when exams are being held. Alternatives that can be accessed at home would give all best opportunity to sit.
sue martin
34:57
Endorsing other colleagues comments - can we have parity across awarding organisations- is this something AoC can champion?
amanda tingle
35:10
We have learners that sit Functional skills mixed in with GCSE-is it the position that they should have to sit their FS as this does not provide parity between the 2 quals-both have missed learning. Will we be able to approach GCSE the same as FS in our setting?
Jenny Craig
35:23
If there is sufficient evidence to support the TAG then that would be the fairest way to award FS grades
Catherine Orridge
36:00
At the moment, we're holding FS tests for Apprentices only. Currently trialling remote invigilation but on a very small scale due to the 1-2-1 needed and also the software requirements.
Kate Da Costa
36:09
Agree RE parity - one of the most time consuming issues from the previous lockdown was keeping up to date with all awarding bodies and their updates, different ways of uploading data etc. Strongly support the need for more similarity
Angela Crabtree
36:11
The same issues exist with remote access and parity (advantage/disadvantage) for learners as per last academic year. The only fair approach would be CAGs or TAGs.
cheryl Thompson
36:21
We would like to offer all our students one sitting in college for FS if safe to do so over a two week window. Those that do not pass but are within 5 marks we would like to offer a pass mark as a calculated grade as a way forward. Those that that are not within a five mark window we would consider mock papers, class work, phase tests if acceptable so a robust but fair process is in place
sue martin
36:32
Sorry stuck on mute!
Liz Hadden
37:14
Please could we have some clarification on online, on demand examinations such as BTEC level 2 Technicals?
Julia Surman
37:22
True FS remote invigilation is not available with all awarding bodies. C&G can't appears to be completed remote (IT and invigilators permitting) due to web-based access BUT Pearson does not appear remote, it is offline and software has to be downloaded onto a laptop to share with learner and invigilated - so impractical.
diane thurston
38:06
Anything to minimise workload for teachers, managers and leaders will be very much appreciated. also need to bear in mind that we want to be teaching practical skills when we return to campus and this needs to be our priority.
Sarah Pink
38:21
The problem with TAGs for functional skills is that if the curriculum hasn't been fully delivered last year and then this year. We should stretch the end of year assessments so that as many students as possible have the chance to be taught and then assessed fairly
Jon Kerrigan
39:23
Consistency would be lovely as we deal with over 15 different AO's across college.
Glyn Jones
40:33
With Principle 2 in mind, I am very concerned about how the numerous, often smaller, awarding organisations of VTQs will keep up with the support given to centres and teachers by the larger ones responsible for GCSEs and A Levels
Andrew Mould
40:38
Is there a plan to bring the final results date for VTQ’s, which are not ‘license to practice’, to be in line with the new GCSE / A-Level results day?
sue martin
40:45
This also highlights that some AO's have a "clunky" and burdensome approach to assessment etc. This is a good opportunity to review ways of working!
Karen Coombs
40:58
All FS should be CAGs (as last year). Exams for license to practice quals and EPAs and those that cannot be adapted etc. Colleges could make those a priority and they can be taken on campus (we have very few invigilators left now, too scared to attend campus)
Gary Phillips
41:06
The considerations around FS need to take into account the large volumes many colleges will have going through this year. Remote invigilation is problematic and expensive. If the FS alternative arrangements include a requirement for an evidence based approach, colleges need as much notice as possible to ensure this is in place. The FS approach does not currently have enough parity with proposals for GCSE with regards to lost learning. A teacher assessed grade process , whilst not perfect, does allow for some of this to be achieved.
Andrew Mould
41:08
Some of the VTQ’s, which are not ‘license to practice’ include optional and mandatory units which have a significant proportion of practical assessments. The ratio of practical to mandatory units may vary from centre to centre. How can this be standardised?
Sarah Pink
41:23
Last year we had completed at least one of the assessments already but this year we are working far more in the dark
Randeep Sami
42:06
Agree with Eddie and Karen about parity across FS through CAG grades instead of having a mixed process.
Antoinette Pennington
43:19
Challenging in this area as for some delivery models these are 6 week roll on roll off modular courses for Adults and not just 16-19.. means if you only started in week 2 there would not be enough evidence for a TAG...
Eddie Playfair (AoC)
43:30
Please type any questions on Part B here.
amanda tingle
46:01
Please do not neglect ESOL qualifications this year. Last year it felt very much an after thought.
Jon Kerrigan
46:09
As with others, most of the incomplete assessment at the moment is practical based. How can KSU from elsewhere be utilised for practical elements. Or will this just go off CAG based on participation pre-lockdown?
nicola cooke
47:32
Gathering of alternative evidence for practical skills is a concern - need to ensure we have a skilled workforce moving forward - keen to see how we can use remote options can be used
Antoinette Pennington
47:58
Impact of future appeals and complaints. Massive workload last time which was not considered.
nicola cooke
48:29
Jan assessments where college ran exams but learners chose not to sit due to health/safety concerns, they must not be disadvantaged and very clear guidance from AO needed quickly to put learners minds at rest
Karen Coombs
48:43
Accommodating students within social distancing guidelines has made online and tests challenging in the current climate – each IT suite can now only accommodate half the students we had pre covid – along with our own covid protocols in cleaning each station before the next exam, has meant on-demand exams have doubled.
Antoinette Pennington
49:07
Impact of learners who were unable to complete practical work esp Engineering and the attitudes of some AOs to accept Adaptation and impact on results, resubmissions and certification.
Glyn Jones
49:21
Agree with the point about complaints. I am dreading July and August! It is important that we don't have a repeat of the haggling we saw last summer.
Kate Da Costa
50:33
There is a big impact in terms in highly practical areas where there is a delay. Space in workshops is limited, the start of this year was late for a lot as we were assessing the 2019/20 students. This will now likely happen again so will have a knock on effect for next year if there's not enough time to deliver and assess practical work.
Sue Hannan - Furness College
50:36
The speed of response by Awarding bodies once the arrangements are agreed is crucial, last year some were very good and others were very last minute which adds to the difficulties on the ground.
sue martin
51:51
Would colleagues be happy to share their approaches so we can support each other through this?
Charlotte Marriott
52:24
More than happy to share approaches!!!
Jon Kerrigan
52:48
Agree with what someone else said that if we can allocate CAG to most then we can concentrate on CoC or practical teaching in term 3 fingers crossed!
Gary Phillips
52:51
Agree with Sue Hannan on the response of ABs - suggestion is how Ofqual/DfE hold AOs to account for quality/timeliness of guidance and support,
Pauline Hughes
53:06
Agree with Antoninette in relation of adaptations for Engineering where AB's were not flexible enough or delay should have been the approach.
Abi Keene
53:13
a similar position in Landbased subjects
Gary Phillips
53:24
Happy to share with others (North Herts here)
Sue Hopewell
53:43
Agree with the comment about retaking an extra year and funded!
Michael Tambling
53:46
With regards to January exams - many colleges delivered these externally examined units (L3 BTEC) in term 1 and therefore need to be making decisions regarding any potential summer series they must sit very soon.
Diana Martin
53:52
I agree with the points about practical subjects completely.
Sue Hannan - Furness College
54:52
Will there be additional catch up funding? That maybe could be more wide ranging in how it can be used?
Diana Martin
55:18
The ESOL cohort were a disadvantaged group last year. Would be good to see them considered for TAGs to stop them being disadvantaged for a second year.
cheryl Thompson
55:56
on ESOL we would like to record S&L exams remotely rather than get student in Some awarding organisations have said no to this - could this be considered
Michael Tambling
56:35
Thank you - will do as soon as this finishes.
Diana Martin
56:46
There are a number of adults who attend technical programmes. Can we ensure these are also considered in funding should they also be delayed due to no access technical elements of their programme
Angela Crabtree
57:06
Timeline of clarity is crucial. We need to inform students and parents about what is happening.
Antoinette Pennington
57:22
Its also the access to the workshops etc when they do not complete :)
SARAH WILSON
57:48
Agree with Sue about the speed with which certain ABs respond to this. The drag by some just adds to the pressure we are under.
Sharon Barrowclift
57:56
All of my students are asking whether there will be exams later in the year or if not, what will be in place instead for those units that are only assessed by an exam
Steven Harrison
59:29
Agree with Sue comments above on AOs expectations and being proactive but also avoiding heavy administration/workloads when agreeing adaptations. Some specific AOs, especially in heavy practical based/license to practice programmes did not seem to be ready or too short staffed to deal with the demand and this delayed information and further support for colleges and our students.
Sharon Sheppard
59:49
It would be very useful if the existing 16-19 tuition fund could be adapted so that it can be used for larger group sizes - colleges can then utilise this funding more effectively to reach more learners and it will also help with staffing levels for these additional support sessions for learners as staffing workload are already high
Sue Hannan - Furness College
01:00:50
Agree with Steven, OCR were so admin heavy last year for the Cambridge Technicals, it took up huge amount of time. Hopefully they might have learnt from last year....
Kate Da Costa
01:00:58
Some AO's furloughed their EQA's during the lockdown which meant liaison was very difficult and also time consuming. Need to ensure AO's have the capacity to support us too.
cheryl Thompson
01:01:15
yes agree Kate
Angela Crabtree
01:01:31
Agree Kate
Shaun Hope
01:02:42
My worry is some of these solutions create further barriers for some of our most vulnerable.
Antoinette Pennington
01:02:45
Ensuring that the changes to adaptations are minimal in one AO of Engineering there were 9 redrafts of the documentation on what could and could not be adapted and the guidance was started in May and learners in lock down since March and the final draft came out in June. Too late for tutors to apply the guidance!
Charlotte Marriott
01:03:16
Agree Kate. This was a real point of frustration amongst staff last year
Lindsay Pamphilon
01:03:28
agree about tuition fund - very sensible to have more flexibility
Antoinette Pennington
01:03:34
There was a disconnect with one AO writing the adaptation and the training of the EQA.s
Antoinette Pennington
01:03:42
(Who were furloughed!)
Holly Bembridge
01:04:19
Clarity and parity will be some important to help us communicate with students and keep them motivated.
Antoinette Pennington
01:05:03
...and resources.. workshops are only so big and working safely
Kate Da Costa
01:05:14
Teaching and learning, resources and teachers
Jon Kerrigan
01:05:16
Big issues with Practicals - massive numbers and heavy on resources
Gary Phillips
01:05:27
Size of workshops, teacher availability
Sharon Barrowclift
01:05:39
Social distancing in workshops
Sue Hannan - Furness College
01:06:19
Fully agree with Antoinette re social distancing in workshops etc.
Shaun Hope
01:06:21
and staff time.
Glyn Jones
01:06:35
Also access to specialist software in some cases.
Kate Da Costa
01:06:36
Issues in particular with Motor vehicle, hair and beauty and construction. All limited space.
nicola cooke
01:06:39
Sectors closed such as hair and beauty, cant work on clients in RWE currently to practice/complete assessment
Lisa Bullock
01:06:48
Learners on certain courses can only work within bubble peers or family bubbles - especially if an area is in T4 and the industries still locked down - difficult to get assessments and range covered
Sarah Ghassemi
01:06:49
Similar challenge in hair and beauty in salon environment
Karen Ferguson
01:06:51
Starting points for practical skills were behind the normal starting points we would have sen in previous years. Need to work hard to upskill students quickly before we can even consider assessment
Pauline Hughes
01:07:07
The demand on College to focus on developing practical skills following lockdown periods and lower numbers in colleges during tier periods is building and building. Theory is the focus during remote so everyone wants the practical skills development on return to college that will be unmanageable.
Lynette Leith
01:07:15
Teaching and learning across all practical areas is a concern. Lots of learning missed here firstly effected by social distancing, this lock down is adding more pressure...there will be very little time to address this once college re-opens
Karen Coombs
01:07:40
We need to recognise that campus accommodation for exams has changed with social distancing - some class rooms do not have ventilation etc.
Sue Hannan - Furness College
01:07:59
Adaptations need to be realistic to deliver, hair and beauty is a clear example of this.
Eddie Playfair (AoC)
01:09:00
Thank you everyone for your questions and comments. We're working on an AoC response and will share this as soon as possible to help us all meet the deadline of 29 Jan.
Alison Chapman
01:09:28
A difficult issue of semantics when the discourse hangs between 'vocational' and A-Levels> many OCR Nationals and BTECs are equally as academic as GCSE/A-level exams and procedures.
Eddie Playfair (AoC)
01:11:04
Good point Alison, and where Applied Generals, Tech. Level and OCR National assessments are more like GQs they will be treated the same way.
Shane Chowen
01:11:19
Brilliant webinar - thank you Cath, Eddie, Bethany and Angela
Sarah Pink
01:11:30
Thank you for organising.
Carol Layall
01:11:33
Thank you
Sue Hopewell
01:11:35
Thank you all
Sharon Barrowclift
01:11:36
Thank you so much
Sarah McPhee
01:11:41
Thank you to everyone - really, really useful to hear all the comments and concerns
patrick craven
01:11:43
Thanks Catherine and others good collection of feedback on the practical challenges we are facing just now
Gavin Barker
01:11:45
Thanks, a very informative webinar
Ria Bhatta
01:11:48
thank you, v useful to hear all the comments
Emma Leslie
01:11:49
Thank you this has been really useful
shaboainne Forde
01:11:49
Thank you from South and City College Birmingham
Shaun Hope
01:11:50
Thank you
Pauline Hughes
01:11:52
Thank you, really useful to share our views and contribute to the debate.
Karen Coombs
01:11:53
really useful - thank you
Holly Bembridge
01:11:54
Thanks Catherine and Eddie!
Kate Da Costa
01:11:56
Thank you.
Alison Vine
01:11:57
very helpful, thanks very much
shireen razey
01:11:57
Thank you Eddie and Catherine for all you are doing. Shireen
Randeep Sami
01:11:58
Thank you all
Antoinette Pennington
01:11:59
See you on the other line in a minute Gavin :)
Angela Crabtree
01:11:59
Comments and input have been invaluable thank you
Diana Martin
01:12:00
Thank you Catherine and Eddie
Ollie Rodley
01:12:04
Thank you! From Newcastle College
Ross Morshead
01:12:05
Thank you.
Lee Jones
01:12:08
Thank you
Michelle Young
01:12:10
Thanks
Joanne Williams
01:12:13
thank you
Antoinette Pennington
01:12:13
AOC West/East Midlands suggest meeting at 14:10