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Economics Network Theme 2 - Shared screen with speaker view
Cloda Jenkins
30:27
Good afternoon all
Ralf Becker
30:35
Hello everyone! Welcome to this Q&A session!
Ashley
30:38
Hello everyone!
Ashley
30:46
Please could you mute your microphones!
Dawson
31:15
Good afternoon everyone.
Andrea Calef
31:28
Good afteroon!
John Brameld
31:29
Good afternoon
Carlos Cortinhas
38:01
For me creating a sense of community will be crucial next year. Have you considered students working together as a group (and be assessed in that way) ? After all, most modern workplaces require some form o collaboration so shouldn’t we also offer that time of assessment?
Dawson
39:37
Carlos: I am thinking of moving my econometric research project from an individual submission to group-based assignment.
Ghulam
41:03
How can we make online exams more effective for an Econometrics - UG module?
Fabio Arico
41:12
Students always tell us they want to study together collaboratively. Then when group assessment comes, they complain that peers deliver different types of effort and it is unfair the team is awarded the same mark. I got a bit hard-core on this and remind students that working in teams will be the standard when they will join a company or a business for their first job.
Guglielmo Volpe
41:42
@Carlos: I will definitely set up group project work for my stats/intro to econometrics module this year. Will consider also asking the students to give a live presentation on zoom/teams
Andrea Calef
43:44
@Carlos: I carefully thought about that. This is tricky and it also depends on the number of assessments student have. I would not be confortable to give a very high weight on a group work. One never knows the actual commitment of each group member.
Fabio Arico
45:04
Spot on Steve, what's the difference between coursework and online exam open-book?
Carlos Cortinhas
46:07
I am having problems listening to the speakers… is it just me?
Ashley
46:34
Audio is clear for me. Anyone else having difficulties?
Anthonia
46:47
i cant hear too
Cloda Jenkins
47:01
I can hear fine
Guglielmo Volpe
47:05
I am OK
STEVE Cook
47:11
I'm ok
Carlos Cortinhas
47:41
@Stephen - totally agree. Expecting students to memorise formulae for example is a waste of time… in the real world people will simply find it in seconds online!
Anthonia
47:48
i still cant hear
Edmund Cannon
47:54
I can NEVER remember the exact syntax for the reshape command!
Cloda Jenkins
48:02
When I worked in consultancy and government, the thing I had to do daily was read empirical work by others and consider whether it was robust and what it was actually telling me. Anybody assess that ability? Maybe with policy-focused empirical work (not academic papers)
Ghulam
48:24
Thank you so much.
Fabio Arico
48:26
The big challenge is that we need to train students on how to source reliable information now.
Guglielmo Volpe
48:29
@Antonia: perhaps try to log out and login again?
Anthonia
48:37
ok
Guglielmo Volpe
48:42
opppss...sorry Anthonia
Cloda Jenkins
48:57
Great question @fabio
Cloda Jenkins
50:00
Employers also want students to know how to learn new things. Could you give them a new challenge and link to a YouTube video with instructions on some new approach and see if they can do that?
Carlos Cortinhas
50:02
The main difference between coursework and exam will only be the time of the year it takes place: housework during term and exam after term is over…
Fabio Arico
50:19
Some colleagues argue that a short deadline (e.g. 24hrs exam) reduces plagiarism. I find it quite a sad differentiation.
Guglielmo Volpe
50:21
@Fabio: agree with you about helping students to separate good from less good information/knowledge
Carlos Cortinhas
51:32
@fabio: I guess it depends how the assessment is designed. I had a colleague that set a 24h, 100% MCQ and there was a lot of collusion (unsurprisingly)…
Andrea Calef
52:12
Yes, it is important that students are able to have a critical thinking as well as analytical skills. With the enormous information, being able to select the important points and link them in a logical way is crucial, above all for employability purposes.
Fabio Arico
52:32
We either do things properly, e.g. online proctoring, or use different tools. Reducing time is not a good way, unless you want to test speed as Stefania says.
Hussein Hassan
53:28
I am teaching econometrics using both slides and the whiteboard (for proofs, etc). Now, moving to the online teaching, what other alternatives for the whiteboard?
Cloda Jenkins
53:31
Turnitin does not pick up hand written equations/graphs and similar. Is that an issue?
Ralf Becker
54:21
@Cloda, on formula you wouldn't expect different answers, so tehre wouldn't be a way to pick up plagiarism
Dawson
54:53
Agree with Fabio, the limited timing should be used to test students ability to work under pressure within time-limits.
Ravshonbek Otojanov
54:56
@Hussain You can use MS OneNote as a whiteboard
Cloda Jenkins
55:48
Most econometricians I know, in private and public sector and academia, don't work at speed!
Carlos Cortinhas
56:21
What about tight word limits (and long time limits)?
Fabio Arico
56:25
Thank God for that @Cloda. There are also issues related to inclusivity that work against speed test.
Guglielmo Volpe
56:50
@Cloda are you suggesting that econometricians are 'slow' people? :)
Ralf Becker
57:15
@Carlos, I am in favour of very tight word limits
Ralf Becker
57:25
giving concise answers are important
Edmund Cannon
57:27
I think some epidemiologists are doing statistics against the clock at the moment!
Fabio Arico
57:58
Yes @Ralf! Word limits are good and wise.
Andrea Calef
58:56
Word limits are useful, as students may be asked to write on different length's reports. This is good to explore. I am doing that.
Carlos Cortinhas
59:40
I think it might be easier to detect free riding when the work is done online as students must leave a footprint.
Cloda Jenkins
59:58
You need to teach students how to work in a group.
Steven Proud
01:00:31
@Carlos - that's a very good point - you could design an assignment, hosted on, for instance, SharePoint - then every student's contribution could be evidenced very easily
Guglielmo Volpe
01:00:32
Yes, very important to "educate" students on how to work in teams
Fabio Arico
01:00:39
I'm fascinated by two-stage exams. I feel it would create less tension amongst student. Student solve a problem on their own, submit, and then work with others on the same problem. Final mark being a combination of individual and collective effort.
STEVE Cook
01:01:31
Fabio- very interesting
Fabio Arico
01:02:08
Yes, I'm keen to try this out.
Andrea Calef
01:02:27
@Fabio: the bundle you propose is promising
Ralf Becker
01:02:43
@Fabio, have you got experience with that? Would be keen to see an example
Cloda Jenkins
01:02:49
This is a nice blog on two-stage exams: https://teachbetter.co/blog/2018/04/03/all-in-on-two-stage-exams/
Guglielmo Volpe
01:03:08
@fabio do you know of somebody who tried two-stage exams? any feedback?
Cloda Jenkins
01:03:47
I do group work on wiki so I can see who contributed when. Plus get peer feedback on each other during term that means individual may get mark different from group (+/-5%)
Cloda Jenkins
01:04:47
True for students who know each other @Steve. Need to help new 1st years/MSc students to get to know each other.
Fabio Arico
01:05:01
Thanks @Cloda. No experience with Economics but trying to get some resources
Steven Proud
01:05:30
@Cloda - I agree about the networks - and building them when they arrive will be the most difficult thing
Guglielmo Volpe
01:05:35
@cloda: with peer evaluation do you only allow a variation of +/-5 marks from the awarded mark?
Cloda Jenkins
01:07:56
Yes, that was all my Faculty would allow for individual contribution @guglielmo but I have had far less free-riding complaints since even that was introduced. Plus I pick up on issues early from first survey as I see all the feedback.
Kaustav Das
01:08:43
@Ralph...I completely agree with you on this. Students appreciate this very much.
Ashley
01:08:54
https://www.economicsnetwork.ac.uk/events/symposium2020/theme2
Carlos Cortinhas
01:10:00
Photos uploaded from phones??
Ralf Becker
01:10:33
i think i will encourage students to load this app on their phone: https://www.ipevo.com/software/idoccam
Ralf Becker
01:10:47
that was @Guigelmo's suggestion on the above website
Ghulam
01:14:25
Apologies I have to leave a bit early, really interesting discussion. Many thanks.
Guglielmo Volpe
01:14:46
bye Ghulam! thanks for coming along!
Cloda Jenkins
01:15:14
UCL also encouraged students to use ipevo.com for scanning handwritten materials for all Term 3 assessments.
Dawson
01:16:00
Should we be introducing coding earlier in the curriculum to overcome the fear?
Cloda Jenkins
01:16:48
I have spoken to data scientists at various organisations this week and they really want graduates to understand 'logic' of coding more than knowing the programme itself. Essentially how to set up the logic of what they are doing before they plug it into a programme. Largely cause they keep changing what programmes they use, including some designing their own internal coding methods.
Carlos Cortinhas
01:16:55
Maybe we should focus on the output of coding (i.e. what you do with the output) more so students perceive the benefits of doing it?
STEVE Cook
01:17:20
I'd say so Pete. Gradual progression is important for me.
Fabio Arico
01:18:59
Indeed, if a skill is core just embed it earlier. However, let's remember that what @Cloda's work is telling us is that what employers mostly (or more widely) want is low-key data analysis and intuition, so maybe we need to differentiate across different tracks and student interests...
Guglielmo Volpe
01:19:02
I show students some basic of programming/macros in Excel just to make them understand the logic behind coding
Carlos Cortinhas
01:19:06
We at Exeter created a Introduction to Data Science module in year 1 that then feeds into other modules...
Dawson
01:19:12
It is important that students develop and exposed to a range of skills. Agree that Excel should not be overlooked, especially from an employability perspective.
Guglielmo Volpe
01:19:13
..in year 1
Ralf Becker
01:19:39
indeed excel should be a fundamental skill
Fabio Arico
01:23:52
OK, @Stefanie raising an interesting point. Coding is useful to really understand what happens in a regression or procedure. The pedagogical function of coding is great.
Dawson
01:24:17
Ability to source and prepare data is often a skill overlooked in the teaching econometrics.
Fabio Arico
01:24:43
Done my homework.Two-stage Exams. David Nicol is the expert. He spoke to me about these while we shared a session a few years ago.Here’s a nice contribution he wrote with a colleague in Glasgow: https://www.slideshare.net/secret/yED4dFSHqkhZEQFrom David Nicol, also interesting to have a look at: https://bit.ly/3fD4QOX and: https://bit.ly/2zM4INTBack to two-stage processes: worth looking into PBL (very popular in pharmacy and health sciences).
STEVE Cook
01:26:39
My comment on two stage exams is thank you for bringing it to my attention
Carlos Cortinhas
01:27:09
I think the chat will be part of the video by default?
Ashley
01:27:18
I'll also add any relevant links to the symposium page
Cloda Jenkins
01:27:32
Lots of colleagues in US use two-stage in economics.
Cloda Jenkins
01:27:34
Thanks everyone.
Steven Proud
01:27:36
Thank you for all the contributions
Carlos Cortinhas
01:27:41
Great to see so many familiar faces… Thanks a lot for this opportunity
Fabio Arico
01:27:51
Very interesting discussion. Thank you all.
Ashley
01:27:57
Thank you for joining!
Hussein Hassan
01:28:00
Thanks all!
John Brameld
01:28:14
Thank you - lots of lovely ideas for me to follow up!
Dawson
01:28:17
Thank you. Bye everyone.